[NancyBrooke]

There was some discussion on the Open Scrolls list regarding song fics and I thought it appropriate to continue here.

What do you say to song fics? do you open them up and happily hum along? skip the 'poetry'? or put your fingers in your ears? metaphorically speaking ... And just what do we mean by "Song Fics"?

I usually don't go for song fics - by which I mean fics where the narrative is built around and based on existing song lyrics - as they seem to me to be a kind of corollary category to Mary Sue, essentially ingenous and not incisive, and the song is usually by some band I think myself too old to listen to.

In the case of full disclosure I'll say that my first ever fic did include song lyrics but it they were not used as a significant structure of the narrative.

Talk back - what do you think?

[Maram68]

As I said on the list, Song-fics or the use of songlyrics in fiction, is, again, a free choice of each author.

If an author likes to use them, he/she does. If the reader likes to read them, they read.

It is as much a stylistic resource as any other.

I don't have anything against them as long as they don't break the rhythm of the narrative or distract from the plot.

[dolarabee]

[Viv]

Like 'sues, songs in fic are easy to generalize and villify. Yes, I've seen 'em done well, and they are an interesting artistic choice, especially when they're integral to the character, as seems to be in The Empty Vessel.

However, the first principle of good writing (even before the "Magic of Spellchecker" rule) is "Don't Distract Your Reader." Distracted readers become confused readers become bored readers become nonreaders. So, despite the fact that Zee apparently has created something interesting, I really don't recommend anyone else including lyrics in a prose piece. It's tricky, usually redundant, and most often a big distraction from the story.

[dolarabee]

[Levade]

Good points, all of them.

For me, I think another important thing is the author doesn't let the lyrics speak for him/her.

The lyrics must have sparked something in the author that they like, or that gave them idea for a story. I just don't really like it when the lyrics tell the story as opposed to simply setting a tone. I want the author to put her/his own interpretation into it. Use the lyrics for inspiration, but do tell a story as well. I really don't want to just have the characters sitting, spouting lyrics at one another (and I am not saying Zee's story does that, by the by).

Lyrics can be used as a lazy excuse not to write what you think it means, or, as has been pointed out here, can be used to amplify whatever it is the author is trying to say.

I just hope we don't see Elves or Dwarves singing modern songs. That's a bit scary.

Peace,
Levade

[Maram68]

I find it works now and then that the lyrics are a an integrating part of a plot or a character. And even some novel writers manage to do a great job writing scenes and emotions based on song lyrics.

No, as I said before I don't consider "The empty Vessel" a songfic at all, and respect Zee's idea of the main OC as a bard expressing her moods, feelings and emotions through music.

Nevertheless, I do find it distracting if I (maybe I am a very ignorant person, though I do not consider myself such) have to actually stop in the plot evolution to look up some piece of music that I either don't know at first glance or can't place at once in my memory.

But then, there are a couple of fics (especially LOTR) where you have inserts of music you should listen to while reading this or that part, and sincerely, I find it annoying.

Nevertheless, while reading "The empty Vessel" I just skipped that parts when I couldn't recognize the music at once (and let it maybe enhance the plot), for sake to avoid these gaps in my musical wisdom interrupting the flow of the narration.

I post this running the risk of getting tomatoes thrown at my head because of my ignorance or being accussed of flaming.
But hey, what other dangers could lighten up my boring existence?

[JennnLee]

Just wrote a long-winded post about it on the Yahoo groups page that I'll quote below. If you read it already, feel free to skip...

Agh!!! Just wrote a long thing and it got eaten! Stoopid computer. Now I have to try and remember what I said.

I wouldn't call "Empty Vessel" a songfic, because the lyrics are used for a purpose. But I'll admit that I became one of those confused readers that Viv mentioned who eventually tuned out because, like the member above me, I spent a lot of time skipping sections, or feeling "left out" because I wasn't feeling what the characters were feeling because they could hear music that I couldn't. And if I don't feel what the characters are feeling, I don't enjoy the story.

My long-winded post below:

I guess I just don't see the point to them. I like the idea of music
inspiring writing, which I think we can just about all agree happens. For the book I'm writing, I've made a mix cd of songs that basically tells the entire story that I'm writing, and it helps me a lot when I'm working on it. But that doesn't mean that I'm going to use those lyrics in my work. Why? Because even though it resonates with me, it isn't necessarily going to resonate with the reader. I can quote "Ripple" all I like, but unless I can make you hear Jerry Garcia's voice and guitar, unless you're already
familiar with the Grateful Dead you're not going to get as much out of it as I am when I'm writing it.

I think the songs are used to better effect when the writer uses them for inspiration. I'm thinking of a story I betaed for a friend of mine, and around about chapter 14 or so she started sticking verses from a song in there between scenes to "show the mood." I didn't know the song, and I thought that the mood itself was well-captured in the scene itself, and didn't need the additional crutch of song lyrics in there. She insisted on keeping them in, which is certainly her prerogative, since in her opinion it was a very intense song and she needed those words in there. But I think the intense feelings she experienced were more from the music itself than the lyrics, because in my opinion they didn't stand alone as poetry.

Like I said, I guess I see why people use them, but to me they seem to be a crutch. Don't quote song lyrics at me if you want me to feel something. Write the scene and make me feel something. Don't rely on the words of others. Rely on your own.

Strictly my opinion, of course, enhanced by the fact that I broke my toe last night so I'm trapped here on the bed with only my laptop, my cross-stitch project, and my cats for company. Which is why I've rambled here for so long.

-jen

[Ellbee]

To me, the term 'songfic' means those stories that are large chunks of lyrics interspersed with little bits of story. I don't like those, and I don't read them.

What a lot of people are talking about here don't really seem to be songfics as I understand them. But the truth is, I skip right over any lyrics or poetry stuck into a fic, including the stuff in LotR (especially the whole Tom Bombadill schtick.) I can see in the example of the story about a bard that it would make sense to put songs in, but still, I'd say to myself, "Oh. The bard must be singing," and skip over it. Jenn has a good point, in that most song lyrics don't stand on their own as poetry, and anyone who has ever read the lyrics on the liner notes of even their favorite albums (er...I mean, CDs) will know what I'm talking about.

I'm going to go one further, and brand myself as a complete philistine, by saying that I'm allergic to almost any kind of poetry, unless it's Dr. Seuss-type funny and/or dirty. I belong to the "if you've got something to say, just say it" school of thought, and if the fic itself doesn't yank the proper emotional response out of me, it isn't very likely that song lyrics will either.

Once again, just my own opinion, worth exactly what you've paid for it.

-Ell

[Viv]