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Scribe

Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Posts: 4 Location: Betelgeuse
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Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:37 am Post subject: What constitutes an AU? |
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AU or Alternate Universes.
What are they really?
As one of the Archive Owners responsible for determining where some stories on this archive go. Of late I've been pondering the question of AU's in general. At present, whenever a story does not follow the continuity of Tolkien's work it is considered AU material. I myself have fics in the AU category however, it has been posed that AU are being used to house fics by authors who feel the need to twist Tolkien's vision into something of their own, which to me seems a little unfair. After all, every author is entitled to some creative expression. However by the same token, should we not also respect the original author's vision? This brings up an issue I think is worthy of debate, what should or shouldn't be considered AU? How far does artistic expression extend and when should the spirit of the source of the material be respected?
What are your thoughts on the subject...? |
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SpaceWeavil

Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 23 Location: Looking at shiny things
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Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:59 am Post subject: |
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I've never really been sure what AU was for. Originally I thought they were stories where one part of canon was changed, one event maybe, to see how the story would have played out, for instance, what if Aragorn had died at Amon Hen instead of Boromir or something like that. Whenever I've used that category, it has been with more modern day stories, where I've had elves surviving on well beyond ME. I figured that technically this could be possible, but since their time was meant to be over and they all should have faded, to keep them on Earth would make the story slightly AU. Other than the fact of elves being there, I try to keep true to canon in all other aspects.
That's just how I've viewed the category and how I've used it, if that is of any help? _________________ Pervy Nazgul Fancier and owner of Fluffy the Fell Beast |
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Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003 Posts: 665 Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...
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Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| SpaceWeavil wrote: | | Originally I thought they were stories where one part of canon was changed, one event maybe, to see how the story would have played out, for instance, what if Aragorn had died at Amon Hen instead of Boromir or something like that. |
That's also how I view AU ... AU it's all the other parallel possibilities and for me it usually answers the question "what if", and the answer deviates from what we know of the characters/story line ... "what if Legolas and Arwen had had a fling?" The answer would be an alternate universe . _________________ ~ boe an phân pedi ‘lam dadui ~
~ everyone should speak a second language ~ |
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NancyBrooke Challenge Admin
Joined: 11 May 2003 Posts: 160 Location: In a motel 6 by the airport
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Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Thuriniel wrote: | | SpaceWeavil wrote: | | Originally I thought they were stories where one part of canon was changed, one event maybe, to see how the story would have played out, for instance, what if Aragorn had died at Amon Hen instead of Boromir or something like that. |
That's also how I view AU ... AU it's all the other parallel possibilities and for me it usually answers the question "what if", and the answer deviates from what we know of the characters/story line ... "what if Legolas and Arwen had had a fling?" The answer would be an alternate universe . |
Yeah, me too. Not questions which are not addressed by the text, e.g. stories about Legolas's mother, but stories which diverge from the text and contradict or alter known story lines.
Not, I think, stories that bend character definitions, since character is to a greater sense open to interpretation. Now, if Legolas suddenly turned out to be very tall dwarf masquerading as an elf or Aragorn had been lied to all his life and was not actually Isildur's heir I think that would constitute AU. _________________ NB Duchess of WHY TF Cant'chu Punctuate, First Duchess of F*&(ing &*ll yur comma placement sux!
Nazgul #3 in charge of ducking & sniggering
Garo golf a conu ned i eneth aran an ir ho delitha ad |
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mistressofbucklebury
Joined: 26 Sep 2004 Posts: 251 Location: England
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Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:44 am Post subject: |
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I tend to agree with what has already been said. My understanding of AU was that the catorgory should be used when the plot twists away from canon in a sort of "what would happen if..." kind of way.
I must admit though that it took me a while to come to this conclusion.... I wasn't entirely sure where my little fic would sit but I figured since I was writing about something Tolkien alluded to, but did not describe in detail, then my attempt was not really an AU story as such...
Anyway that's my two pence worth
MoB |
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Leila
Joined: 04 Aug 2003 Posts: 0 Location: the Pegasus Galaxy
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:13 am Post subject: |
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What they said pretty much sums up what I've always viewed as AU.
Warning:D :more or less below
| NancyBrooke wrote: | | or Aragorn had been lied to all his life and was not actually Isildur's heir I think that would constitute AU. | Plot Bunny! Just what I need, ANOTHER plot bunny. I guess I've gone and found myself a new tag-along. _________________ A Drabble A Day Keeps The Bunnies At Bay |
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Rous

Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 358 Location: Trying to stay below the radar
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:14 am Post subject: |
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I agree with the others. I am not sure that adding a character that does not change the plot over much would be A/U. As long as you left the written characterizations and events alone, it would just be filler. If you write about a character that is little mentioned in the original story, you would not be changing anything, just filling in gaps. For instance, if you gave Erestor a wife. There is, to my knowledge, nothing mentioned either way concerning his having a wife. So, is this A/U? Now, if suddenly Elrond died and Erestor became lord of Imladris, how could that be anything but A/U?
My fiction is listed in A/U because of the canatics. Because I added an OC, it cannot be canon, so I was told. I just wanted to be sure I did not smash any more toes. So, 'tis better to err on the side of caution. And it does not bother me. _________________ The only opinions that count, are those of the ones in control.
You make hay while the sun shines; beans you can combine after dark.
Duchess of the Independent Resort State of Mexico (est. 10/28/2004)
Purveyor of Buttershots and popcorn.  |
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NancyBrooke Challenge Admin
Joined: 11 May 2003 Posts: 160 Location: In a motel 6 by the airport
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Rous wrote: | | I am not sure that adding a character that does not change the plot over much would be A/U. As long as you left the written characterizations and events alone, it would just be filler. If you write about a character that is little mentioned in the original story, you would not be changing anything, just filling in gaps. For instance, if you gave Erestor a wife. There is, to my knowledge, nothing mentioned either way concerning his having a wife. So, is this A/U? |
I agree that embellishing what tiny tidbit we know of a character is not A/U (otherwise, where would all those Legomances come from? ), and also that creating a likely character where none existed before, like Erestor's wife, is A/U; I think A/U is contradicting Tolkien's text.
But you bring up an interesting question, Rous: is a fiction like "Don't Panic!!!" A/U? (I don't remember how it's classified in this archive). It is told from the perspective of an OC who clearly doesn't appear in LOTR, but the actions of Tolkien's characters and book are unchanged nevertheless. I would leave that up to the author's discretion, even though I might just be a
 _________________ NB Duchess of WHY TF Cant'chu Punctuate, First Duchess of F*&(ing &*ll yur comma placement sux!
Nazgul #3 in charge of ducking & sniggering
Garo golf a conu ned i eneth aran an ir ho delitha ad |
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SpaceWeavil

Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 23 Location: Looking at shiny things
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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With stories like that, where a modern OC or otherwise non-canon OC turns up in ME, I tend to think it is AU. That was part of my thinking also in putting 'Bodysnatcher' in AU. ALthough I have a modern woman in ME, I have tried to keep the other canon characters true, like when she meets Boromir in Lorien, I make sure he 'acts' like Boromir. But then again, if the story is OC centric, then could it also go into Femme Fatale? _________________ Pervy Nazgul Fancier and owner of Fluffy the Fell Beast |
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Rous

Joined: 20 Mar 2004 Posts: 358 Location: Trying to stay below the radar
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| NancyBrooke wrote: |
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Didja like that? I do. _________________ The only opinions that count, are those of the ones in control.
You make hay while the sun shines; beans you can combine after dark.
Duchess of the Independent Resort State of Mexico (est. 10/28/2004)
Purveyor of Buttershots and popcorn.  |
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Ningloreth

Joined: 31 Dec 2003 Posts: 39 Location: Manchester, UK
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Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | As one of the Archive Owners responsible for determining where some stories on this archive go. |
Did you move my Misrule in Mirkwood to the AU section? Or did I post it there by mistake? I had always thought of my stories as 'Movieverse' before - set after the movies but consistent with that world. But now I'm quite happy to call them Alternative Universe.
The problem was that my view of AU was formed in a different fandom (based on a TV series) where scholarship was not an issue. So, until recently, I would have said that "what if Legolas had a fling with Arwen" was not AU because it would be perfectly possible for that to have happened 'between the lines', as it were, and in one of my stories, it did ; but "what if Legolas and Aragorn are both elves and brothers and Gimli is a man" would be AU because those are clearly not the characters that Tolkien created. In the other fandom I mentioned, a lot of this sort of shuffling of elements* went on, often to no good purpose, so the term AU was somewhat pejorative (a bit like Movieverse ).
Now I wear my AU badge with pride... And my latest story is most definitely AU, set in the world of the Arabian Nights. But still, I hope, with recognisable Moviverse characters.
*Incidentally, has anyone read Carol Churchill's play Traps? She takes a handful of characters and, in scene after scene, alters their relationships, changes pairings, and so on (though brother and sister are always brother and sister and there is no incest). The effect is very interesting. |
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Viv Challenge Admin

Joined: 24 Apr 2003 Posts: 71 Location: Texas
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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I think it's important to distinguish intentional AU from research lapses (or blatant disregard of the source material). AU is intentional alteration of canonical plot or characters, usually stated in an author note at the beginning of a story.
Often, I see stories where canon is just dumped in preference of ... something else (elves having wings; Legolas going to Kindergarten, Sauron romancing the pants off of Galadriel). In those cases, I tend to leave reviews along the lines of "This might be more interesting if you changed the character names and posted it somewhere as original fiction." Those kinds of reviews are generally nicer than, "Your [lack of] canon knowledge makes the Baby Eru weep."
Those canon-deprived stories really shouldn't, in my opinion, be categorised alongside thoughtful extrapolations of what might have happened if Bilbo had killed Gollum in The Hobbit.
However, I have to say that I've written canon-spotty humour fics and have no idea how I'd categorize them other than "Silly."  |
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BittenBuggy

Joined: 27 Dec 2003 Posts: 2108 Location: Busy Being the Queen Of Everything.. And Trying to Catch the Yoda-Copter
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Viv wrote: | "Your [lack of] canon knowledge makes the Baby Eru weep."
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Viv You made my day babe _________________ -The Queen of Everything - so dubed by Aerin
-"My ultimate fantasy is to entice a man to my bedroom, put a gun to his head and say, 'Make babies or die'."
-"The Pope! how many divisions has he got?" - Stalin |
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NancyBrooke Challenge Admin
Joined: 11 May 2003 Posts: 160 Location: In a motel 6 by the airport
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Viv wrote: | I think it's important to distinguish intentional AU from research lapses ...
In those cases, I tend to leave reviews along the lines of "This might be more interesting if you changed the character names and posted it somewhere as original fiction." |
Your extraordinary tack never ceases to amaze me, Viv. I'll never know how you do that (let alone how I might ) _________________ NB Duchess of WHY TF Cant'chu Punctuate, First Duchess of F*&(ing &*ll yur comma placement sux!
Nazgul #3 in charge of ducking & sniggering
Garo golf a conu ned i eneth aran an ir ho delitha ad |
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SpaceWeavil

Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 23 Location: Looking at shiny things
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| NancyBrooke wrote: | | Viv wrote: | I think it's important to distinguish intentional AU from research lapses ...
In those cases, I tend to leave reviews along the lines of "This might be more interesting if you changed the character names and posted it somewhere as original fiction." |
Your extraordinary tack never ceases to amaze me, Viv. I'll never know how you do that (let alone how I might ) |
That is definitely one of the best-phrased reviews I have heard  _________________ Pervy Nazgul Fancier and owner of Fluffy the Fell Beast |
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