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In middle earth...

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Tae



Joined: 10 Oct 2003
Posts: 8
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2003 11:44 pm    Post subject: In middle earth... Reply with quote

In middle earth do elves, well really, do the many races of ME, celebrate holidays. Holidays like: Christmas, birthdays, thanksgiving. Can someone please answer. Thanks . Wink

Last edited by Tae on Sun Nov 09, 2003 12:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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EomerofEastfold



Joined: 06 Nov 2003
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Location: The Mark

PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2003 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Birthdays are celebrated, though I don't know about Elves, given they are immortal. Not Christmas and Thanksgiving though.
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Panneth



Joined: 10 Jun 2003
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Location: Manchester/London

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elvish pregnancies last a year (poor she-elves) so the date of their birth falls around the same date as their conception and so they celebrate that date rather than the day of their birth.

Emma
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KhazarKhum



Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 234
Location: Quartz Hill, CA--USA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In middle earth do elves, well really, do the many races of ME, celebrate holidays. Holidays like: Christmas, birthdays, thanksgiving. Can someone please answer. Thanks .


The various cultures must have their own holidays. In human cultures there are usually celebrations at teh solstice and equinox. There's almost always something for new year & the harvest. In most kingdoms the king's birthday & coronation are special holidays.

Christmas is heavily influenced by both Yule & Roman solstice celebrations. Thanksgiving is, of course, unique to North America, but in spirit & timing it is similar to many harvest festivals.

HTH

khazar
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NancyBrooke
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Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 160
Location: In a motel 6 by the airport

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2003 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KhazarKhum wrote:
The various cultures must have their own holidays. In human cultures there are usually celebrations at teh solstice and equinox. There's almost always something for new year & the harvest.

In the appendices to LOTR there are calendars for Gondor and the Shire, I believe, and both set aside days for seasonal festivals. Check it out.

Do you want to find out what Holidays there might have been? OR do you have a holliday in mind and wonder if it has a ME equivalent? If the latter, try and do a little deconstruction - figure out what our Holiday is really about - Pilgrims, Christ, change of seasons, rebirth, honoring the dead, honoring important people or events, etc. - that might help you invent a ME equivalent.
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Tae



Joined: 10 Oct 2003
Posts: 8
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, really it is about the holidays that elves celebrate. Do they celebrate christmas, new year, thanksgiving, etc. If you can help, i'd really appreciate it.
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miriel361



Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 417

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The elves are lovers of the stars and so I think would be clever oberservers of the night skies. Hence I do not think it would be illogical for them to celebrate seasonal festivals.

Keep in mind that there are 13 lunar months in a year and four seasons. The christians took over the earlier celebrations and incorporated them into their own doctrine. There have always been festivals of midwinter (the celebration of light over darkness - ie when the days begin to lengthen again), spring (of growth and renewal) of midsummer (the longest day) and of autumn (the festival of harvest, dying and death).

They might also incorporate the 'kin-slaying' into a festival of remembrance. Or there may be a day when they celebrate Iluvater.

One final point: the elves are immortal and therefore may not celebrate every year, but every ten years or even every hundred.

Whatever you decide, keep it consistant and anchor your story in believable facts.


Good luck and good writing.
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Haleth



Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 538
Location: The ruins of Tharbad.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 5:15 pm    Post subject: Elven Holidays Reply with quote

There is a reference to two specific holidays made in Lost Tales 2, the Fall of Gondolin.

The first is the festival of Nost-na-Lothion, or the Birth of Flowers, which took place at the beginning of spring 'with the revelry of children'.

The second is Tarnin Austa, or the Gates of Summer. which was celebrated on the first day of summer.

There is a description of how Tarnin Austa was celebrated in Gondolin. If you feel you need it, please let me know and I can type it out for you.

Please take these with a huge grain of salt. Although they are described by Tolkien, these appear in Book 2 of the History of Middle Earth, which many people do not consider 'canon'.

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Books would not be read, and pipes would not smoke. The day slipped out of his hand, running aimlessly to waste. JRR Tolkien. The Lost Road
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Viv
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Joined: 24 Apr 2003
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Location: Texas

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would Noldorin elves have continued to celebrate the Gates of Summer even after the fall (the attack on Gondolin came smack in the middle of the festival, if I remember correctly). So even if they continued to celebrate it, it might have evolved into a more melancholy affair.
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Haleth



Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 538
Location: The ruins of Tharbad.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:22 pm    Post subject: Evolving Festivals Reply with quote

That's a very good point, Viv. The Noldor suffered greater setbacks in Middle Earth. Gondolin, the last free city, had really become a symbol of defiance, resistance and hope. Its loss, especially because of Maeglin's betrayal, would have been particularly hard.

I wonder, though, if the Exiles also celebrated memorial days the way that we celebrate Remembrance Day, Memorial Day and Anzac Day? It wouldn't be so much a celebration as a day of quiet contemplation. the anniversary of Finwe's death, the Dagor Bragollach, Fingolfin's death or the Battle of Unnumbered Tears all come to mind as potential candidates.

As elves were so close to nature, I wonder if they would want to keep these days separate from the festivals celebrating nature?

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Books would not be read, and pipes would not smoke. The day slipped out of his hand, running aimlessly to waste. JRR Tolkien. The Lost Road
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