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Alassante Virtual Village Mod

Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 20 Location: Hitchhiking to Rivendell
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 2:33 pm Post subject: Dumb question about Elves' sex lives |
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A man cannot usually create a baby after say 50-60 and a woman cannot have a baby after menopause. That being said, with elves being immortal, can they always have kids? Also, in my stories, sex before marriage is okay considering the fact that they lived so long. Think that is the way it is supposed to be?
On a man/elf related question, do you think that Aragorn was supposed to be faithful from age 20 when he met Arwen until age 87(?) when they married? Were they supposedly intimate? Hmmm...so many questions.  _________________ Nagzul #2 - The Nazgul of Shmoove
Crucio! Because stupidity should be painful!
http://alikat7.livejournal.com/ |
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sindohte

Joined: 13 May 2003 Posts: 1621 Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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I hate the fact that I am not at work and cannot email you a copy of LACE aka Laws and Customs of the Eldar. You can consider that to be basically everything that you wanted to know about Elf sex and having babies. If you do a search through some of the older posts on the forum, you should be able to find more information about LACE and the subject of Elf sex.
If you follow a strict interpretation of LACE, sex before marriage would not happen. Elves tended to marry soon after they reached adulthood, so there really wasn't much time to be running around shagging everything that moved. So if you really stuck to LACE, it would eliminate you writing a story about a hot Elf girl or human female from having a random hook up with Legolas or whichever Elf of your choosing.
Call me a romantic, but I would like to think that Aragorn loved Arwen enough to wait until marriage to have sex. It just ruins the magic of the romantic story told in the Appendix of ROTK to imagine Aragorn screwing every random bar maid he could get his hands on. Heck, this was a man who loved Arwen enough that he was willing to reclaim his birthright as king and rid Middle Earth of Sauron. I would like to think that if he could be dedicated enough to accomplish that goal, delaying sex would be minor compared to that. _________________ abandon thought, and let the dream descend... |
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SpaceWeavil

Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 23 Location: Looking at shiny things
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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From the LACE I understand that the problem was that childbirth took a lot out of the ellith and so they tended to get that part of life over and done with when they were younger, as although they didn't seem to age or grow weary, they actually did, just very very slowly. Also I think it says something about them moving onto other things later in life as well, though I'm also away from home at the moment and don't have HoME to hand. _________________ Pervy Nazgul Fancier and owner of Fluffy the Fell Beast |
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sindohte

Joined: 13 May 2003 Posts: 1621 Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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Jess, you are correct about childbirth taking away some of the lifeforce from a female Elf. My interpretation of it was that the mother was actually giving a small portion of her fea to the child. And in the case of Feanor's mother, she gave him such a large share of her lifeforce that it sent Miriel into that profound decline that resulted in all that divorce business which led to all that later craziness. I too remember LACE talking about Elves finding other pursuits as they grew older. That once they had given birth their interest in sex declined as well, although the strength and depth of their love for their spouse remained. _________________ abandon thought, and let the dream descend... |
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Alassante Virtual Village Mod

Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 20 Location: Hitchhiking to Rivendell
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Will one of you please email me LACE when you get back home?
Until then I will just plan to ignore the rules from my previous stories and then going forward try to use it. But Elrond was a couple of thousand years old when the twins were born wasn't he??
If elf men do not have sex before marriage they definatly do not have the same sex drives as mortal men. Can you imagine a man waiting hundreds of years to have sex if they lived that long? I mean most men are ready to lose their virginity at age, what 14 or 15, and then get sex as often as possible.
I like the thought of Aragorn waiting but being a man, I just don't think it would have happened. Of course, he was a very busy man so it's possible. I think that SLASH writing use that as a basis for all of their Aragorn SLASH. He was only around men so.... Personally if I were in the wilderness for months even years, I would be way too miserable without a real bed or the comforts of home to think about changing my sexual preferences!!!  _________________ Nagzul #2 - The Nazgul of Shmoove
Crucio! Because stupidity should be painful!
http://alikat7.livejournal.com/ |
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Alassante Virtual Village Mod

Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 20 Location: Hitchhiking to Rivendell
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| sindohte wrote: | | Jess, you are correct about childbirth taking away some of the lifeforce from a female Elf. My interpretation of it was that the mother was actually giving a small portion of her fea to the child. |
Okay...fea? What's that??
| sindohte wrote: | | I too remember LACE talking about Elves finding other pursuits as they grew older. That once they had given birth their interest in sex declined as well, although the strength and depth of their love for their spouse remained. |
Okay - that just sucks. No wonder they are such good warriors - it is all that pent up sexual frustration. Can't have sex? Go kill an orc! That was their answer to the whole cold shower business.  _________________ Nagzul #2 - The Nazgul of Shmoove
Crucio! Because stupidity should be painful!
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NancyBrooke Challenge Admin
Joined: 11 May 2003 Posts: 160 Location: In a motel 6 by the airport
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Unbelievably, I have a copy of LACE that BB e-mailed me; I'll pm that to you, Alassante.[/b] _________________ NB Duchess of WHY TF Cant'chu Punctuate, First Duchess of F*&(ing &*ll yur comma placement sux!
Nazgul #3 in charge of ducking & sniggering
Garo golf a conu ned i eneth aran an ir ho delitha ad |
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SpaceWeavil

Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 23 Location: Looking at shiny things
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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A fëa is an elven soul / spirit, with a 'hroa' being the body or raimant that the soul wears. (and I cannot type on this stupid keyboard of my dad's ) _________________ Pervy Nazgul Fancier and owner of Fluffy the Fell Beast |
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Alassante Virtual Village Mod

Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 20 Location: Hitchhiking to Rivendell
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, now I am going to have to trash most of my fan fiction. Stupid stupid stupid!!! Should never have asked. Next time I plan to be blissfully ignorant. Well, I am going to put on all of my fan fiction - "Written before I read LACE." _________________ Nagzul #2 - The Nazgul of Shmoove
Crucio! Because stupidity should be painful!
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sindohte

Joined: 13 May 2003 Posts: 1621 Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think that you need to trash what you have written, but you should be aware that some of your readers are going to be conversant on most of Tolkien's works and will pick up on canonical errors that you might make. For example, unless you are writing about Glorfindel, it would be extremely unlikely that a Noldo Elf would have blonde hair. A good portion of your audience may not even notice something like that, but those familiar with Tolkien canon will immediately pick up on it. An error like that is not the kiss of death, but it is something easily corrected. The best thing that you can do is research and/or get information from people who have studied Tolkien for a bit. And most important - remember that we are all hopefully writing for the fun of it. _________________ abandon thought, and let the dream descend... |
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Alassante Virtual Village Mod

Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 20 Location: Hitchhiking to Rivendell
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| sindohte wrote: |
canonical errors that you might make. For example, unless you are writing about Glorfindel, it would be extremely unlikely that a Noldo Elf would have blonde hair. |
Canonical errors - hmmm, now I feel like the 3rd grade dropout at Harvard.
And why did Legolas have blond hair in the movie? Damn Peter Jackson - it's all his fault I am so confused.
Seriously, I am no offended by your comments or anyone elses because I did ask. It's just frustrating to realize that you are committing carnal sins against Tolkien!!!
I will just write my fan fiction and post it on other sites if it deviates too much from the rules because some of those sites are like "Elves...yum....rules? What rules? Elves....yum". This way I don't look like a bonehead. You people are wayyyyy more knowledgeable than I am. I can kick my family's ass in LOTR trivial pursuit but in here, I am just like - What? Where? Who? But I guess if I read enough of your stories I can pick up stuff. I am at least glad that the MPREG thing was just a made up thing! I was beginning to get a little concerned.
But I must go on record here ... The thought of immortality with very little sex is depressing! Tolkien should have really thought about that one!!! _________________ Nagzul #2 - The Nazgul of Shmoove
Crucio! Because stupidity should be painful!
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VanatheEverYoung
Joined: 22 Aug 2004 Posts: 0 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Alassante wrote: |
And why did Legolas have blond hair in the movie? Damn Peter Jackson - it's all his fault I am so confused. |
Legolas isn't a Noldorin Elf. He is a Sindarin ruler of Silvan Elves. The issue of his hair color is highly disputed. But, he has blond hair in the movies because in "The Hobbit" his father has blond hair.
And don't worry about mistakes. We have all made them. There are a lot of people who have LACE memorized, but don't follow it. It all depends on what you personally feel about it. I follow it, but that doesn't mean I don't read stories that deviate. I'm sure the Admins won't ask you to remove your stories because of a few mistakes. Asking questions in the forum proves that you want to learn more. _________________
Vána, the Ever-Young
"All flowers spring as she passes and open if she glances upon them; and all birds sing at her coming." |
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Elentari

Joined: 12 May 2003 Posts: 254 Location: Lost in elven dreams...
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Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Alassante wrote: |
And why did Legolas have blond hair in the movie? Damn Peter Jackson - it's all his fault I am so confused. |
There are any number of elven clans or houses in Tolkien's world. To make things simple:
One fine day the elves woke up. Since the world was very dangerous and in it there was an evil god running loose doing evil things, the other gods teamed up to save what of the elves thjey could by taking them all to this protected paradise they created. Now, the evil god melkor had suceeded in scaring some of the elves of the other gods and they did not hear the god's calling- those are the Avari, the refusers, clan.
Of those who did hear the call you have the Teleri, The Noldor and the Vanyar. Some of the Teleri did not complete the journey to the protected paradise and stood behind in ME, somewhere between the shores and the lands in the middle east. Those are the Nandor- the elves of Lorien and of Mirkwood were of those kind. We also have the Sindar or Grey elves of Beleriand, and the Sylvan. (I heard it somewhere sylvan was same as those elves from mirkwood, but cannot affirm it now)
Now, golden locks were characteristic of the Vanyar. A light shade of hair was known to be a shown of the God's favour- The vanyar were specially loved, and that Thingol King had his hair turned silver when he married a small goddess called Melian.
Legolas. The question of his hair is endless and has strong supporters on both sides. I guess PJ wanted to risk less when he put his money on blonde, because there is a passage in The Hobbit that says that The Elvenking's hair (Named Thranduil only in FoTR) was golden. And legolas is not a Noldo- His father is at least half-sinda at least if his mom was a sylvan of Mirkwood. Same goes for Legolas himself- there is no mention of his mom. Legolas' granddad was a Sinda, Oropher, and rumour has it he was kin with Thingol (that of silver hair that married a demigoddess)
| Alassante wrote: |
But I must go on record here ... The thought of immortality with very little sex is depressing! Tolkien should have really thought about that one!!! |
Tolkien was a devout catholicist, and those were the fifties. I do not think he would write a book or tarnish his ideal world with near-perfect-elves that jumped from bed to bed.
However, you are not bound to follow LACE by the book. You can make a little note saying you are not doing it. It's your story, your interpretation- the only thing we do demand is that you give your best shot.
good luck, girl. |
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Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003 Posts: 665 Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...
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Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| Alassante wrote: | | Okay, now I am going to have to trash most of my fan fiction. Stupid stupid stupid!!! Should never have asked. Next time I plan to be blissfully ignorant. Well, I am going to put on all of my fan fiction - "Written before I read LACE." |
I think all elf-smut writers have gone through the same process of discovery ! You sound just like me when I first found out all about Elven customs .
Write an author's note at the beginning of the fic explaining Tolkien canon and your deviations from it. That's what I did ... and then ... enjoy the writing! _________________ ~ boe an phân pedi ‘lam dadui ~
~ everyone should speak a second language ~ |
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NancyBrooke Challenge Admin
Joined: 11 May 2003 Posts: 160 Location: In a motel 6 by the airport
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Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:20 am Post subject: |
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You can also clearly state that you're writing in Movie-verse, not book-verse if you insist on undisputed blond-Legolas (or Boromir, or Faramir, for that matter). _________________ NB Duchess of WHY TF Cant'chu Punctuate, First Duchess of F*&(ing &*ll yur comma placement sux!
Nazgul #3 in charge of ducking & sniggering
Garo golf a conu ned i eneth aran an ir ho delitha ad |
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