[Elentari]

As title implies, too damn lazy to dig the whole books.
Anyone knows of a Major Issue between Mortals and Elves in the Fiorst or Second Age that would result in , i.e., the kind of animosity Thranduil harbored towards the dwarves?

I just need a pretty bad contend that would make a certain tribe of Men enemies of elves, and vice versa. Surely there is something in the midst of SIlma and HoME?

thanks,
me!

[Gypsum]

Off the top of my head, I can think of two instances which might suit your purposes.

In the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, the Fifth battle of Beleriand, Maedhros (Feanor-s oldest son... I don't know how well versed in First Age info you are, so if you're utterly lost, I can explain more) was allied with a group of Men called Easterlings, whose chieftain was a guy named Ulfang. Maedhros was to lead his army to join the armies of Fingon, Turgon, and Hurin, and so assault Morgoth. He came late, but he did come in time for Morgoth to let loose his full strength against the Eldar and Edain. Therewere Balrogs, wolfriders, 78903284932894 Orcs, and the dragon Glaurung. So things were not going very well for the Elves, but then it really went downhill for them when Ulfang and the Easterlings suddenly switched sides and turned on the sons of Feanor. They had been plotting against the Noldor the whole time. The Noldor and Edain killed Ulfang and his sons, but still the host of Noldor was scattered and the sons of Feanor ended up having to bail. I imagine that the Eldar would not have been too fond of Easterlings after that.

The second issue I can imagine arising between Elves and Men might not lend itself to such worthwhile grudges as the first I mentioned, but here it is anyway.... Hurin, the father of Turin, was imprisoned by Morgoth for twenty-eight years after being taken prisoner in the Nirnaeth. Then Morgoth let him go to further his evil plots. Now Hurin was a good guy and was a war hero and beloved by the Elves, but Morgoth had cursed him and all his kin, so they were magnets for bad karma. Hurin in his wandering went to Nargothrond, which had been destroyed, and took from it a necklace called the Nauglamir which had apparently been prized by the now-dead king of Nargothrond over everything else there. Hurin took the Nauglamir to King Thingol of Doriath, whom he sorta held responsible for his son's death. He gave the necklace to Thingol to be a jerk, in a very smartass way that is hard to explain here without writing a book covering half the events in The Silmarillion. At any rate, Hurin's giving the Nauglamir to Thingol started a chain of events that led to the destruction of Doriath. I guess that someone from Doriath could think of Hurin, <i> That jerk... If he hadn't brought that bloody necklace here things would have been FINE...</i>. But not as good for longstanding, angry grudges against a whole clan of people as the betrayal of Maedhros by the Easterlings.

[inglor]

One jumps in my mind: Turin, the destruction of Nargothrond and Doriath could be linked to him.

Also, Beren. If an elf was looking for a reason to have a grudge, marrying Luthien (the fairest child of Eru, EVER) and thereby causing her death (though it was her choice) and leading Finrod to his death (which also could be constued as another reason for the fall of Nargothrond) could give reason for a grudge.

But to further what Gypsum said, I think it is specifically stated in the Sil that the treason of Ulfang caused a souring of the relationship between Elves and Men. Bor (another of the Easterlings) proved faithful and this helped, but the damage was done.

Inglor

[Gypsum]

Oh yes, Inglor hit a good one that I had spaced. Turin in Nargothrond. When he came to Nargothrond he became one of King Orodreth's principle advisors, and his advice was rather rash and not very wise. Nargothrond had had a strategy of guerilla warfare since Finrod had left to join Beren on the quest for the Silmaril. Which was good since it kept Nargothrond hidden from Morgoth (even though the reason for it had more to do with implicit threats from the Celegorm and Curufin and less to do with Morgoth, but anyway....). But Turin was like, "Hiding like this is for wimps and losers. Fight in the open like real men." And he advised Orodreth to build a bridge so they could move big armies in and out of Nargothrond. Orodreth followed Turin's advice, much to the chagrin of other Elves. We know that Gwindor, who was even a friend of Turin, was annoyed, and I would assume that he was not the only one. So not only is the king following the counsel of a Man, but to Gwindor and most likely others, the Man's counsel sucked.

Turin's tactics did end badly for Nargothrond, since Morgoth's forces were (a) able to figure out where it was and (b) assault it quite easily since there was a convenient bridge right there for them. Orodreth died, Gwindor died, lots of people died.

[Elentari]

tanks, folks. I'll see what I can do with those.
You guys are super.