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Alassante Virtual Village Mod

Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 20 Location: Hitchhiking to Rivendell
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| SpaceWeavil wrote: |
For instance, if I read a story where Elrond is an evil rapist (and I have read a couple of those), then I want a jolly good reason why he would behave like that. |
Just a humerous note here, I read a story on another site (less quality controlled) that had Elrond as an evil rapist and Legolas was an evil rapist/torturer. Arwen was like a future seeing psycho. As I read through the story, I became more and more appalled. What pushed me over the edge however was the fact that when Lord Elrond raped a young elleth from Lothlorien, he used the BRA she was wearing to tie her hands so he could remove her silk panties.
I did not know that Victoria Secret was in ME as well.
At that point - I stopped reading and LMAO.  _________________ Nagzul #2 - The Nazgul of Shmoove
Crucio! Because stupidity should be painful!
http://alikat7.livejournal.com/ |
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SpaceWeavil

Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 23 Location: Looking at shiny things
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Alassante wrote: | | SpaceWeavil wrote: |
For instance, if I read a story where Elrond is an evil rapist (and I have read a couple of those), then I want a jolly good reason why he would behave like that. |
Just a humerous note here, I read a story on another site (less quality controlled) that had Elrond as an evil rapist and Legolas was an evil rapist/torturer. Arwen was like a future seeing psycho. As I read through the story, I became more and more appalled. What pushed me over the edge however was the fact that when Lord Elrond raped a young elleth from Lothlorien, he used the BRA she was wearing to tie her hands so he could remove her silk panties.
I did not know that Victoria Secret was in ME as well.
At that point - I stopped reading and LMAO.  |
I have a sneaking suspicion we've been reading the same stories...  _________________ Pervy Nazgul Fancier and owner of Fluffy the Fell Beast |
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SpaceWeavil

Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 23 Location: Looking at shiny things
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Alassante"] | VanatheEverYoung wrote: |
Bottom line - I agree reviewers should be honest with their reviews and even give their personal opinion (ex. I think you made Haldir too different from the cannon character) and not have to worry about getting shredded by the writers. However I think that reviewers should be fair and respectful in their comments. I would rather hear - your portrayal of so and so was not very cannon than hear -you are a terrible writer and you need to stop posting. I personally have gotten SHREDDED on another site where the person basically told me I was a horrible person for subjecting them to this crappy story. I was shocked that someone would be so personal in their attack and I was tempted to write them an email telling them to kiss my a**. But I didn't. So far on this site, I have never gotten a review that offended me. Even if people didn't agree with the way I had written a character or the style of writing I used, everyone has been respectful in their remarks and I appreciate their honesty. |
As Viv says, I would hope you'd not get anything like that on this site. _________________ Pervy Nazgul Fancier and owner of Fluffy the Fell Beast |
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DarkElfChilde

Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 1013 Location: I'm located somewhere
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| SpaceWeavil wrote: | | Alassante wrote: | | SpaceWeavil wrote: |
For instance, if I read a story where Elrond is an evil rapist (and I have read a couple of those), then I want a jolly good reason why he would behave like that. |
Just a humerous note here, I read a story on another site (less quality controlled) that had Elrond as an evil rapist and Legolas was an evil rapist/torturer. Arwen was like a future seeing psycho. As I read through the story, I became more and more appalled. What pushed me over the edge however was the fact that when Lord Elrond raped a young elleth from Lothlorien, he used the BRA she was wearing to tie her hands so he could remove her silk panties.
I did not know that Victoria Secret was in ME as well.
At that point - I stopped reading and LMAO.  |
I have a sneaking suspicion we've been reading the same stories...  |
Makes me wonder where the hell do people get these ideas? Oh that's right...I don't want to know.
People scare DEC
 _________________ [ ] |
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Texasgirl

Joined: 18 Oct 2004 Posts: 895 Location: Texas (no shit, sherlock)
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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if that's not a sh*tty example of story-line AU, i don't know what is
from the really crappy stories i've been reading on other site recently, i have reason to belive that if tolkein saw them he'd have a heart attack then sue for a bajillion dollars. or maybe not.
i know that i don't have buisness insulting what other authors think about, but as to what spacey and allasente said, i mean, come on - elrond as a rapist?!?! elrond, lord of imladris, son of idril and earnidil (sp?) in the line of luthien, descended from the mightiest elves - i might have gotten my background a little wrong, but the point still remains - WTF?!?!
okay. that was my rant.
TG _________________ Damn, I love my home - except for the fact the nearest bit of civilization is forty miles away.
*Other co-founder of the "Howdy!" committee*
*Other co-founder of the official foundation* |
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DarkElfChilde

Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 1013 Location: I'm located somewhere
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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Good point TG. Makes me sick thinking how people would write characters being like that, and I don't care if it's an AU or not...that's just wrong. Ugh.
- DEC _________________ [ ] |
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Alassante Virtual Village Mod

Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 20 Location: Hitchhiking to Rivendell
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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I know this is very but this writer's stories all include evil elves that rape and torture. She had one that was actually okay and it was the first one I read. It was slightly more believeable but in every other one, the elves are always raping each other if they are not busy torturing each other. After I read the good one, I skimmed a few others until I came to the bra story. I did not review the work because I was too busy LMAO. _________________ Nagzul #2 - The Nazgul of Shmoove
Crucio! Because stupidity should be painful!
http://alikat7.livejournal.com/ |
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SpaceWeavil

Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 23 Location: Looking at shiny things
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Texasgirl wrote: | if that's not a sh*tty example of story-line AU, i don't know what is
from the really crappy stories i've been reading on other site recently, i have reason to belive that if tolkein saw them he'd have a heart attack then sue for a bajillion dollars. or maybe not.
i know that i don't have buisness insulting what other authors think about, but as to what spacey and allasente said, i mean, come on - elrond as a rapist?!?! elrond, lord of imladris, son of idril and earnidil (sp?) in the line of luthien, descended from the mightiest elves - i might have gotten my background a little wrong, but the point still remains - WTF?!?!
okay. that was my rant.
TG |
Thing is, even with those stories, there are people who read and leave positive reviews, and so even if those stories baffle me as to their purpose, it's not up to me though to start flaming other reviewers just because they like it. Even I think the story is so far off this planet that it's not even in the same galaxy, I have no right to tell the other reviewers they're off their head for liking it, and likewise I don't really want them telling me I'm crackers because I don't. ( I am trying to be really good here and stay fairly on-topic, as I usually stray wildly off whenever I post in a thread )
Saying that, I was not very good and have not reviewed that particular Elrond story yet, although I would feel a bit more inclined to review one now, if one came up, thanks to advice here. Certainly if anyone found something OOC in my fics or something that is over-used fanon, I would like them to tell me, rather than just going 'blech' at the fic and clicking 'back'.
Not that I'm Elrond-obsessed or anything but just to use him as an example again, I'm not sure if I inadvertantly perpetuated something that is a lot of people's peeve in one of my stories. I thought at the time I was doing ok, but lots of people have commented since and so I'm now thinking if my approach wasn't all wrong. Thing is, no one has actually reviewed and told me I portrayed the character in a bad, over-used way, so I don't know if I'm just being over-sensitive to general comments that aren't aimed at me, or if my story is in the wrong, and just no one has said, for whatever reason. So as a result, I'm not sure if I should post the sequel thing, (or indeed any Elrond thing) as I'm a bit shakey now on my approach to the character.
I'm not trying to beg for reviews or ego-tripping here when I say that; it's just an example of why I reckon reviews, good and bad, are important.
Being honest, it's just a ramble really  _________________ Pervy Nazgul Fancier and owner of Fluffy the Fell Beast |
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JaneDoe
Joined: 19 Nov 2003 Posts: 0 Location: My own little world
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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Regardless of whether you stick to canon or diverge from it, what has to be clear is why the characters believe and behave as they do. Even the most canon-strict characterization can be rendered dull and irritating by a lack of attention to character motives. As a reader, this is the standard I use to review characters in fanfic. You can determine if something is canon or not simply by going to the source and reading for yourself. Making sure characters have motives and complex personalities is a bit harder to do, especially with characters whose inner lives aren't given a lot of screen time in the books. In other words, most of the characters.
As an author, I like getting feedback where people say exactly what works for them and why. I'd rather have 3 thoughtful reviews than 100 that just say, "U R the bestest writer EVAR!!!!!" I can go to fanfiction.net for that. Thankfully, I have been fortunate at OSA in that regard. Have I gotten something that I don't agree with? Sure, but I take those with a grain of salt since those sorts of comments are not what I would consider thoughtful response. If someone had serious issues with my work that are not firmly under what I would call reader discretion, and they expressed themselves in such a way that showed they were as serious about their review as I was about writing, I would continue discussion through PMs so as not to clog up the review section of the story with what could erupt into a heated debate. What I do not do is tell people, "I'm going to disregard pretty much everything you say because I don't really listen to reviews" when people offer a thoughtful critique of my work. I've had that done to me, and I hate it.
As a reviewer, I only leave feedback when I feel really strongly about something, and even then, only in a positive way. I tend not to waste time or bandwidth on things that I don't feel are worth it, so I generally leave glowing reviews to authors whose works I like, making sure to state exactly what it is that grips me. After that, I generally leave the work alone. I tend to believe that if an author is interested in my further opinions, they'd ask me for it, and they are well within their rights not to. They do not have the right to be disrespectful and belligerent if they don't like what someone has to say.
If I have a reviewer pet peeve, it's when people decide to make websites trashing other people's fic instead of having the guts to give an honest critique to the author. That's immature, disrespectful, and cowardly. It doesn't help that they think they're doing the world a service by behaving this way.
Long story short, there are two ways to ensure smooth relations between writers and reviewers:
1. Nobody writes anything or expresses opinions about anything. How dull.
2. Writers and reviewers still express themselves, but make a conscious effort to be civil out of respect for their mutual humanity. This one is more difficult, yet more rewarding for everyone involved. |
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SpaceWeavil

Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 23 Location: Looking at shiny things
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| JaneDoe wrote: |
As an author, I like getting feedback where people say exactly what works for them and why. I'd rather have 3 thoughtful reviews than 100 that just say, "U R the bestest writer EVAR!!!!!" I can go to fanfiction.net for that. |
Everybody said you get innundated with such reviews on FF.Net. Most I ever got was 20 something for 'Alliance' (not that I'm fussed). I'm taking all my stuff off there though, as I think a few people are. I mean, it's quite nice to get the encouraging reviews but they're not all that helpful.
Saying that, I got a review from HASA the other day, which shocked me no end, as I had comepletely forgotten I have a story on HASA. But that is entirely irrelevant.  _________________ Pervy Nazgul Fancier and owner of Fluffy the Fell Beast |
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Viv Challenge Admin

Joined: 24 Apr 2003 Posts: 71 Location: Texas
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| SpaceWeavil wrote: | | [Thing is, no one has actually reviewed and told me I portrayed the character in a bad, over-used way, so I don't know if I'm just being over-sensitive to general comments that aren't aimed at me, or if my story is in the wrong, and just no one has said, for whatever reason. So as a result, I'm not sure if I should post the sequel thing, (or indeed any Elrond thing) as I'm a bit shakey now on my approach to the character. |
Here's the thing: *everything* can be done well. Even an evil!rapist!Elrond story could be done well, if it were set up properly. For instance, say it was an AU in which Elrond stayed in Middle-earth so that he wouldn't have to leave his kids, who all chose to live mortal lives. After the twins and Arwen kicked the bucket, he'd be stuck here for thousands of years, alone, feeling the ever-spreading shadow. His hroa would fade, his fea would twist. Tolkien even talked about this sort of thing in Morgoth's Ring. In such a scenario, even wise Elrond could become very twisted and sick. If his fea were houseless, he could even become vampire!evil!Elrond, possessing the bodies of unwitting mortals.
The problem I think most people have is with fics that don't even bother setting up a what-if situation, but just say "Elrond is a rapist" and expect us to swallow it. When that happens, I think it's a reviewer's responsbility to ask, as politely as possible, WTF. |
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SpaceWeavil

Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 23 Location: Looking at shiny things
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Viv wrote: |
Here's the thing: *everything* can be done well. Even an evil!rapist!Elrond story could be When that happens, I think it's a reviewer's responsbility to ask, as politely as possible, WTF. |
Hmn. Evil!Vampire! Elrond... Could be a very weird sequel to 'Underworld'... ( I'm having Elrond withdrawls since I haven't done an Elrond story for a while) _________________ Pervy Nazgul Fancier and owner of Fluffy the Fell Beast |
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SpaceWeavil

Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 23 Location: Looking at shiny things
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Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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Just going back to the original topic, I need to vent, as this has just happened to me again on a review I left recently. I asked a question about the origins of an OFC's name, and actually had a very civil conversation with the author about it by PM, but having just gone back to look at the review page again, I have a lovely little message from someone else telling me (by name no less) that it doesn't matter and supposedly correcting my Sindarin, (and thus making out that there was no reason to say anything in the first place). Now, quite apart from the fact that what I said regards the elvish translation was correct, and even the author herself said that, I am very annoyed by her attitude. Again I'll say I have no grievance with the author. She was very nice in her PM, and answered the question I'd asked about the name with no nastiness or resentment.
I mean for goodness' sake, if the woman had read the review properly, she would have seen it was positive. So people are not allowed to ask questions about things in fics any more?
I know this has kind of been discussed in this thread and all, but needed to let off some steam. Sorry folks.
But how does one respond to this? I mean, I don't want to start a slanging match in the review forum, or anywhere else for that matter, but how does one politely let that person know that what they said was offensive,or does one not do that? _________________ Pervy Nazgul Fancier and owner of Fluffy the Fell Beast |
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Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003 Posts: 665 Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...
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Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sorry ... I keep reading all these plots about Evil Vampire Elrond and then my eyes fall on Space Weavil's avvie ...
... and the giggles start . _________________ ~ boe an phân pedi ‘lam dadui ~
~ everyone should speak a second language ~ |
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Viv Challenge Admin

Joined: 24 Apr 2003 Posts: 71 Location: Texas
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Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| SpaceWeavil wrote: | | But how does one respond to this? I mean, I don't want to start a slanging match in the review forum, or anywhere else for that matter, but how does one politely let that person know that what they said was offensive,or does one not do that? |
Report MaidenGreenleaf's review to the admins. They might be interested in seeing it.
Yeah, that kind of response is exactly why I started this forum thread. Reviewers shouldn't be attacked or rebuked by other reviewers. That stuff goes on all the time at ff.net, but it's not constructive, it's discourgaging to reviewers who put thought into writing reviews, and, in my opinion, it's just flat out rude. |
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