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SpaceWeavil
Joined: 27 May 2004
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 Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Thuriniel wrote: | | Alassante wrote: | I also used -
A'maelamin for My beloved
Mela en' coiamin for Love of my life
Amin mela lle - I love you
Are any of these right? |
Did you ever get my PM about the verb "to love" in Sindarin? There isn't such. In Sindarin you say "you have my love", not "I love you." |
I have actually seen a derived verb for 'to love' on a fairly reputable (IMO) Sindarin dictionary. That's what I tend to use. It doesn't break any linguistic rules I know of to do with Sindarin. I might get shot for that, but I've quite often derived verbs from noun stems and adjectives, just using the rules Tolkien set out for doing that.
Only thing is I lost the URL of the sites I use, and only have hard copies I used to learn from now. Stupid PC. Why did it have to go and die on me? (Actually I think it died as a protest to being used as a library for LOTR pics, but that is way  )
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SpaceWeavil
Joined: 27 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, and yes, Anarion is child of the sun or son of the sun. That's the trouble with that grey elven site. You have to watch out with them, as they do stick a few bits of 'proper' elvish in here and there, but then flavour it with a load of other stuff that has no Tolkien relevance whatsoever.
Anarion (sorry if you know this, in which case this will sound really patronising) was Elendil's younger son, Isildur's brother. The two of them ruled Gondor jointly while Elendil ruled Arnor in the North after the Downfall of Numenor, and before the Last Alliance. Anarion was killed during the siege of Barad-dur, in the last alliance, by a stone flung from the tower. Minas Anor, later Minas Tirith, was 'his' city. So that's what Denethor's on about.
Like I said, sorry if you already knew that. I'm off now to play with my new Prince Isildur and glow-in-the-dark King of the Dead action figures I got in the sales. 
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Alassante
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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My biggest concern was the fact that one of my children in the Vanelosse story is named Anarion (youngest son/baby). I use this site for names of elves:
http://www.elvish.org/elm/names.html
If you scroll to the bottom, it has an alphabetical listing of names in common english and their meaning then it translates it to elvish. For example:
| Quote: | | ALAN (m.) - possibly diminutive of Celtic 'rock'; *ondolle "little rock" (ondo + dim. ending -lle), thus Ondollo |
I just scroll through it until I find a meaning I like (all sweet, bringer of joy, child of the sun, etc) and then use the elvish name no matter what the english version is.
I love this site and since it is based off Elvish.org I thought it was likely to be pretty accurate.
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SpaceWeavil
Joined: 27 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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My only concern, having just looked at that site, is that the interpretations of the common names seem somewhat suspect. For instance, being childish, the first thing I did was look up 'Jessica', and he gives the translation as 'He Beholds', then goes on to translate it into elvish as 'She Beholds'. Which is all very well, but actually in Hebrew it means He Beholds, as in God beholds, or God is watching. So the translation isn't really correct then, if you see what I mean.
Which is maybe picky. Also from what I've seen, the names there all seem to be Quenya, which might not be an appropriate language for your character. Sindarin might be better for certain groups of elves, for instance.
I have a book of name-meanings somewhere. If I had the time and web-know-how I would almost be tempted to do a proper Sindarin site like that. It sounds like an interesting project.
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Alassante
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I try to be as accurate as possible but without learning the whole sindarin language or bugging everyone to death, I can only come so close to being right. I once read a story where the elf was named Barbara so at least I have a little more accuracy than that.
Some people choose names and never explain what the names mean so I guess I could do that but I wanted to give my characters some defintion. I never check to see if the definition of the english name matches baby books. I just use the Elvish translation of the meaning they have. Such as Sero meaning peace. I have never gone back to find out which english name meant peace. My only concern was that the elvish name was Sero which meant peace.
Like I said, I try to be accurate but I cannot guarantee 100% success rate.  Hopefully the reader can understand that.
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Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
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Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| SpaceWeavil wrote: | I have actually seen a derived verb for 'to love' on a fairly reputable (IMO) Sindarin dictionary. That's what I tend to use. It doesn't break any linguistic rules I know of to do with Sindarin. I might get shot for that, but I've quite often derived verbs from noun stems and adjectives, just using the rules Tolkien set out for doing that.
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When I learned Sindarin I was told there was no verb for "to love", and I thought that using the "you have my love" phrase sounded a lot more elven and elegant than "I love you" ... so I never gave it a second thought.
I too derive verbs from nouns and adjectives, so if I were to find a sound derivation of "love" for "to love", I would accept it and shut up. I just cringe when I see that "amin mela lle" (& family) that has no basis at all ... and I react accordingly  !
Now, I do remember seeing not very long ago a mention of a Sindarin translation for "to love", and I believe it was based on Quenya? Like you, I have no clue what I did with the URL, or where I saw it, or if I have it lost somewhere in between my many pages of notes ... 
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Thuriniel
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SpaceWeavil
Joined: 27 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Thuriniel wrote: | | SpaceWeavil wrote: | I have actually seen a derived verb for 'to love' on a fairly reputable (IMO) Sindarin dictionary. That's what I tend to use. It doesn't break any linguistic rules I know of to do with Sindarin. I might get shot for that, but I've quite often derived verbs from noun stems and adjectives, just using the rules Tolkien set out for doing that.
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When I learned Sindarin I was told there was no verb for "to love", and I thought that using the "you have my love" phrase sounded a lot more elven and elegant than "I love you" ... so I never gave it a second thought.
I too derive verbs from nouns and adjectives, so if I were to find a sound derivation of "love" for "to love", I would accept it and shut up. I just cringe when I see that "amin mela lle" (& family) that has no basis at all ... and I react accordingly !
Now, I do remember seeing not very long ago a mention of a Sindarin translation for "to love", and I believe it was based on Quenya? Like you, I have no clue what I did with the URL, or where I saw it, or if I have it lost somewhere in between my many pages of notes ... |
It's incredibly irritating losing all that stuff. The only up-point was that I was able to get my Quenya dictionary and PDF Sindarin dictionary back again, after the PC died, as I could find those on the net, but I also lost all my Anglo-Saxon grammar files and can't find them again. The only dictionary I have at home (as in proper book) is only Anglo-Saxon to English and doesn't have much in the way of grammar, so I had downloaded loads of stuff and it is all gone, unless I can get one of these gadget thingies to get into the dead hard drive.
Having just worked on a little ditty for Wormtongue for my new (possibly going to be written) story, I much prefer Sindarin to Old English
But that is a tad I know. Bad me. 
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