[Forest]

Okay, just randomly wondering what everyone's view is on Denethor, Fireball of Gondor.

Movie Version: Strangely handsome looking IMO, but a complete #$%$%$ to Faramir. *pets Faramir* Still, Denethor had many issues that most likely aided his going cuckoo, so for my part, I still pity him and frankly, adore him as a character.

Book Version: Again, has issues but here, I love him even more because he is still courteous to Gandalf and yet is so mixed up. As Shrek would say "Denethors are like onions. They all have layers!"

In short, Denethor is one of my favourite characters in the entire
trilogy, mainly because there is so much depth to him. The dutiful layer seems to be only a mask to hide his true frustration and pain and I think it is this multi-layered ness which can draw you to him. It seems to be similar with the other so-called "villains" of the story ie: Gollum/Smeagol and Grima Wormtongue (both of whom, may I also point out, I have a special fondness for).

Meh, maybe I'm just drawn to lonely and "villainous" characters, but still, I can't help thinking I can't be the only one out there with a liking for the "bad boys".



~Forest

[SpaceWeavil]

[Eyborg]

I've never seen Denethor as a "bad guy". More like a tragic character a la Shakespeare, like King Lear for instance. Actually John Noble has said the same (I think he's done some Shakespeare in Australia).

As for bad guys in LOTR, I think the only real "bad guys" are Sauron, Saruman and Shelob. Gríma and Gollum are much closer to being tragic characters, in my opinion...

[SecretKeeper]

No one is born bad. It's the circumstances and the choices they make that shape them. In fact, I think Grima is one heck of a guy. Slimy but hey, he probably was decent until he grew jealous and/or mad that he couldn't have Eowyn. Sauron wasn't even bad before Melkor decided to rebel. Indeed, he probably was a good guy tempted by the power Melkor had. He probably became a junkie on the dark forces and couldn't be taken away from it unless he chose to. Gollum is just obvious.

[Eyborg]

I think you've got a point there SecretKeeper. As a matter of fact, I tend to believe that everyone is both good and bad, you know... it's just a question of which nature dominates one's life...

[FairlightMuse]

Hey, there is nothing wrong with bad guys! Sure, it's fun to tease and torment them every so often, but for the most part...there is just something dangerously appealing about bad and tragic characters...

Maybe it's the combination of emotions, that leads us to pity them, fear them, and ultimately...desire them.

[ghettoelleth]

Man I hope I can explain this. I've never tried to verbalize it before. Andreth, this is all your fault.

Here goes...I have to say, my favorite bad guy is Annatar. Not because of the reasons stated above, however.

I wrote about Osse and in doing so, I had to explore the effects on his personality his brief fall from grace had. Then, after reading a fic by Andreth about Annatar, I thought okay, after Osse's return to the light, he still suffered from this terrible temper, most likely a result of his guilt and shame. Then what I had read of Annatar made me think, how much of the good Maia must be left in him? How tortured is he by who he used to be, what if his quest for power were, as with Frodo, like a herion addiction. What a nightmare. So now, I have a big old fat hairy crush on Annatar and am probably the only sick b**** in the world who gets aroused by the Mouth of Sauron. I'm so going to hell. (Oh, and lets not forget the crush on the two dwarves, ech.)