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SpaceWeavil



Joined: 27 May 2004
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Location: Looking at shiny things

PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:38 pm    Post subject: WIPs Reply with quote

I was incredibly fed up, being stuck indoors all day with rotten weather, and wanted to start a discussion Cool

What, in your experience, is the better way to post a WIP fiction - should you write the whole thing at home, then post it bit by bit, or should you post as you write?

Personally, I do the latter. I tend to post stories as I write them. I used to think this was the best way for me, because it motivates me to finish a story, and I am quite bad for leaping from idea to idea without actually finishing things. I also thought it would be good to get concrit along the way. I'm not so sure now, though, since I know a lot of people post completed stories bit by bit as well. One thing I've found with my approach that's a problem is that sometimes I put too much weight on lack of reviews or very slow hit counts, and whereas if I wasn't posting the story but was just writing it myself, I would plough away at it, I find myself wondering if the story's rubbish, especially if its something I've literally begged for concrit on and still has barely any, and get put off doing it. Even though I'm still enjoying writing and plotting the story, I still wonder what I'm doing wrong, if anything, if you know what I mean.

So I'm thinking now if I should finish all my stuff before I start posting, and just wondered what other people prefer to do, or if they've any thoughts on this.

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ellisk



Joined: 23 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll tell you what, Space, since you are so good at writing so many things at once and actually finishing them, I'd keep doing it the way you are. I have all of my story written and that's a joke because as soon as I started posting it, the reviews I got made me think, 'Well what if..." and "What about..." and so I have ended up rewriting, expanding, cutting, pasting etc so much that if I look at the original first three parts that I wrote and the version that got posted, I can only shake my head. Rolling Eyes

On the other hand, for me, I do like having the whole thing written because as I wrote later parts, I said, "Well, I could include something in the early part that will foreshadow that," or stuff like that. Edit: Plus, I got to know my characters really well and I think I portrayed them more as I wanted to because I had their whole evolution written from end to end. I think I would have missed some potential if I had not had the whole thing largely complete.

I guess it depends on the piece. Mine gets pretty complex with underhanded dealings and all that stuff. If the story is easy to outline, you might as well post as you write, providing you intend to finish. If it is more complex, it might be better to get a good portion of it done before you write yourself into a corner publically. I know I would have done that several times if I had posted before I finished.

Those are my initial thoughts. K

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Last edited by ellisk on Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Elentari



Joined: 12 May 2003
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Location: Lost in elven dreams...

PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally write post as i go, except if I write a ficlet. I have very few options, since the story comes to me in bits and spurs.

I agree with the trap that lack of reviews present. One may get discouraged along the way. However, even when the public does not review, we are not quite able to exorcise the story until it's out, now are we? It's almost an infection.

wich reminds me, I have quite a few projects on the freezer, and no prospect of getting them out of there...

On the other hand, posting the story forces me into a commitment of finishing it. I am not able to let go if I know it is on air.

So there. My two cents.
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LuthienTinuviel



Joined: 29 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Currently doing the latter for my experimental fic Lay of Arwen Undomiel. Stumped on Act 4, still clueless and not in the mood and pressed for time... law assignments and all.

Somehow I always have something in my mind about Legolas & Gimli's friendship tho. Guess I just suck at romance. Boo hoo me. Rolling Eyes

I'm sticking with short fics for now. Not good enough plotwise to work on something at that scale!

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ellisk



Joined: 23 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just re-read your original post and thought I'd add one more thing. You said you place too much weight on hit counts/reviews and thought if you wrote without posting you might not worry so much. That is true. You'd probably write more just for your own enjoyment and that is certainly good. But then when it comes time to post, I can tell you that the low response demon rears it's head. My whole story is written, like I said. I wrote it because I enjoyed it and wanted to explore those particular characters more. But response to it is fairly limited on the sites where I am posting it except for one. Each time I have ended one part, I have seriously hesitated to start the next just because I think, "Well who cares, anyway." So you can't avoid the evil, nagging 'Where are the hits?' voice. Confused
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DarkElfChilde



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I post my chapters of any story as I go...eventually, I'll finish something. Embarassed

- DEC

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SpaceWeavil



Joined: 27 May 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ellisk wrote:
On the other hand, for me, I do like having the whole thing written because as I wrote later parts, I said, "Well, I could include something in the early part that will foreshadow that," or stuff like that. Edit: Plus, I got to know my characters really well and I think I portrayed them more as I wanted to because I had their whole evolution written from end to end. I think I would have missed some potential if I had not had the whole thing largely complete.


This is the way I used to work, since the site I posted to would only accept completed stories and you had to email the thing to the site admin to have it vetted and uploaded, rather than uploading chapters yourself, which I much prefer. I used to go back and alter things as well, as I changed plot etc further along the line. That is one drawback I've noticed here with posting WIPs, but the one time I did a major rewrite of chapters, I just put a note on the summary to say so. Nobody read that story anyway and I eventually deleted it, once I started spotting the glaring canon mistakes.

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SpaceWeavil



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ellisk wrote:
Just re-read your original post and thought I'd add one more thing. You said you place too much weight on hit counts/reviews and thought if you wrote without posting you might not worry so much. That is true. You'd probably write more just for your own enjoyment and that is certainly good. But then when it comes time to post, I can tell you that the low response demon rears it's head. My whole story is written, like I said. I wrote it because I enjoyed it and wanted to explore those particular characters more. But response to it is fairly limited on the sites where I am posting it except for one. Each time I have ended one part, I have seriously hesitated to start the next just because I think, "Well who cares, anyway." So you can't avoid the evil, nagging 'Where are the hits?' voice. Confused


Yeah, I suppose. My story I just recently took off was posted as a complete story, if I remember rightly, but didn't get much attention. That one, in the end, I just deleted. I have an idea about reposting it once I've ironed out a few tweaks, but I'm a bit terrified of that now. It's had a far better reaction on FF.Net than it had here, which makes me wonder as to its quality, and whether it might not be better left to die in peace. Confused

I go through phases with my story. Elentari's definitely right that, when one of these stories grabs me, I find it really hard to ditch it. I'm really enjoying plotting nasty things to happen in the story, and it's actually gone back onto the track it was originally meant to be on, but had veered off for a while, which is a great feeling. When I'm being a mature, adult author, I know that it is probably just not popular because it's very slow in pace, and I know from feedback on my science fiction stories that a lot of people hate that I take chapter upon chapter to build up a story, and also because it's not a story about the most popular characters. There is not a Legolas in sight Very Happy So therefore, obviously, it's not going to get much attention. When I'm in that nice, mature, mood I am okay and I plough on with it, all confident.

When I'm being silly, self-conscious author I wonder if it's just so bad that people can't even be bothered to waste review space telling me Laughing But I still write it.

I also agree sometimes it's best to write a chunk before posting. I like to have at least two chapters, or have the story up to a point where there's a natural break, before I post something. I've only had one story where I did two chapters that seemed to be going great, but then I just lost the muse completely and had to pull the thing. I remember feeling rotten about that (although that one hadn't exactly been on the highest votes page either). But generally once I've done two or three chapters, I know if it's a keeper.

I'm rambling on incessantly, I know. This is what happens when you're stuck indoors, with only FoTR EE and chocolate truffles for company. Twisted Evil

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Hellion



Joined: 22 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was going to post this some where else but this is a good of a place as any.

I am an avid reader and I have promised to review and rate.

As much as I hate WIP's I see the need and do not mind reading along with the author's creativity... AS LONG! as the writer follows through and keeps writing. There is nothing worse then reading 29 chapters of a WIP. If you have lost your muse be honest and take the story off. !!! More importantly !!! Don't rush the ending. If we have been there at chapter one we will be there at the end. ((Also, Ghetto will pimp your work if it needs exposure. Look how well it is doing for her wonderful WIP. I hang on her every chapter!!))

Case it point - Now Panic. Boz is gone and it wll not be completed. Is there something to warn the reader? Nope. And there I am the WIP Sucker. That is just wrong.

As for reviewing and rating the WIP - I will give you kudos and a shiny new pencil to keep you happy and writing. But a rating or story review waits until completion. If I like it I will just ask for more. If you want me to read your WIP I will. Just ask.

There is nothing worse then an abandonned story. Even worse is the author who doesn't tell anyone it has died a horrible death. Heck it happens. You didn't stab me. I will live with the notification.

Either way.. keep writing. You writers are wonderful!! Go forth and do!! So I can read.

Thank you,
me, Twisted Evil
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SpaceWeavil



Joined: 27 May 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hellion wrote:
I was going to post this some where else but this is a good of a place as any.

I am an avid reader and I have promised to review and rate.

As much as I hate WIP's I see the need and do not mind reading along with the author's creativity... AS LONG! as the writer follows through and keeps writing. There is nothing worse then reading 29 chapters of a WIP. If you have lost your muse be honest and take the story off. !!! More importantly !!! Don't rush the ending. If we have been there at chapter one we will be there at the end. ((Also, Ghetto will pimp your work if it needs exposure. Look how well it is doing for her wonderful WIP. I hang on her every chapter!!))


I leave it a few days, to see if I really can't continue, or if it's just a patch of writer's block, then I take the story off. Thankfully that only happens rarely with me.

Quote:
As for reviewing and rating the WIP - I will give you kudos and a shiny new pencil to keep you happy and writing. But a rating or story review waits until completion. If I like it I will just ask for more. If you want me to read your WIP I will. Just ask.


I've heard a few people say that about reviewing stories only when they're complete. I can understand how people would prefer to do that. Just has never happened on any of my completed stories. I think even if I decide to stop posting until I have the whole thing completed, I would still post bit by bit though, rather than shoving a whole story on at once. I know I prefer to read things as 'serials' rather than in one whack, simply because of time constraints.

And personally as a writer, I find comments as the story is being written more 'helpful', not that I will always change things or whatever or allow bad reviews to put me off, but sometimes suggestions through a story's process are extremely valuable and help sort out major problems before you get too far into it and have to change it.

Also I enjoy seeing how people are reacting to the story, especially things like the humour story 'A Tale of the Sixth Age' that I have on the go at the moment, to see what things people like and pick up on. I find that really interesting. With my other major WIP (Which I neeeeeed feedback on, Twisted Evil ) about the Witch King, And in the Darkness Bind Them, I like seeing how people are reacting to the character, since he's a 'bad guy' I'm trying to humanise. Obviously at the end of a big story, its nice to know what people thought of it, but honestly, I much prefer to have some interaction with the readers throughout. It makes posting the story a much more enjoyable experience, and with stories like 'Alliance', I get to the end of the story and it feels like a team effort almost. Very Happy


Quote:
There is nothing worse then an abandonned story. Even worse is the author who doesn't tell anyone it has died a horrible death. Heck it happens. You didn't stab me. I will live with the notification.


I will admit I've never told anyone that I've removed my stories. But then on the other side, no one's noticed, that I know of, and the stories had barely any reviews to begin with. So I wouldn't have thought to tell anyone I was taking it off. Suppose it would be different with some large WIP that loads of people have been following but mine were piddly little things with 2 reviews tops.

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ellisk



Joined: 23 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hellion wrote:
As much as I hate WIP's I see the need and do not mind reading along with the author's creativity... AS LONG! as the writer follows through and keeps writing.


I feel for your frustration with having to wait for chapters of an engaging fic to be posted. The other side of that is this: I originally posted my entire work on FF. I got tons of people emailing me and suggesting I post it chapter by chapter because people would be intimidated by how long it was and not start it.

Also, it takes a long time to post chapters when you are doing it in a bunch of different sites. It is much less annoying to post chapter by chapter even if the whole thing is written.

Hellion wrote:
As for reviewing and rating the WIP - I will give you kudos and a shiny new pencil to keep you happy and writing. But a rating or story review waits until completion.


I agree with you on the rating. I never rate until the story is largely complete. But I disagree on reviews. I don't necessarily review every chapter of a fic unless I really adore it. But I definitely review regularly for a WIP. Even a simple "enjoy your story" can be all it takes to kick an author back into gear when they are struggling and after all--I am enjoying the story. It only takes less than a minute to click "add review" and type that. To me it is only a courtesy to the hard work of the authors.

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ellisk



Joined: 23 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SpaceWeavil wrote:


And personally as a writer, I find comments as the story is being written more 'helpful', not that I will always change things or whatever or allow bad reviews to put me off, but sometimes suggestions through a story's process are extremely valuable and help sort out major problems before you get too far into it and have to change it.

Also I enjoy seeing how people are reacting to the story.... I like seeing how people are reacting to the character...


Well said. Exactly

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ellisk



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SpaceWeavil wrote:

When I'm being a mature, adult author, I know that it is probably just not popular because it's very slow in pace, and I know from feedback on my science fiction stories that a lot of people hate that I take chapter upon chapter to build up a story, and also because it's not a story about the most popular characters. There is not a Legolas in sight Very Happy So therefore, obviously, it's not going to get much attention. When I'm in that nice, mature, mood I am okay and I plough on with it, all confident.


That's the real trick, isn't it. Everyone likes a different type of writing style. I find many of the LotR readers have the patience for my slowly building stories (I definitely do the same thing). When I wrote X-Files stuff, many of the readers there had the tolerance for that too. But when I wrote Star Wars stuff, forget it. I found it just didn't go over. But I found I could have fun writing in a more action paced style in the fandom, so I still enjoyed it. It is all a matter of people's taste and since fan fic writers write for a limited market, not the general populace, it may be more difficult to find people that enjoy a particular writers style. I think you're doing ok, though Space! We love your stuff. Very Happy

Quote:

I'm rambling on incessantly, I know. This is what happens when you're stuck indoors, with only FoTR EE and chocolate truffles for company. Twisted Evil


Doesn't sound too bad to me. Smile

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SpaceWeavil



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ellisk wrote:

That's the real trick, isn't it. Everyone likes a different type of writing style. I find many of the LotR readers have the patience for my slowly building stories (I definitely do the same thing). When I wrote X-Files stuff, many of the readers there had the tolerance for that too. But when I wrote Star Wars stuff, forget it. I found it just didn't go over. But I found I could have fun writing in a more action paced style in the fandom, so I still enjoyed it. It is all a matter of people's taste and since fan fic writers write for a limited market, not the general populace, it may be more difficult to find people that enjoy a particular writers style. I think you're doing ok, though Space! We love your stuff. Very Happy


I'm generally very slow. I've been shouted at by my friends on my yahoo group a number of times for that. I told them the other day that I'd just finished part one of the Witch King story, and thought I was doing really well, until they started screaming you finished it in how many chapters? and but it's not finished - that's just the first part???

But then that group was formed to write sci-fi stuff, and they were into more fast-paced stuff.

I also have to say I don't believe that people who read chapter one automatically stay all the way through a WIP either. I know I've given up on some stories I'm reading after a few chapters, bad though that may be, and I'm sure more than a few people have lost interest in mine, particularly ones like Bodysnatcher and And in the Darkness. I think that's a risk that you take though if you don't write for reviews alone. You can't please everyone all the time.

Ramble, ramble...(I've run out of truffles and am too lazy to switch disks on FoTR Evil or Very Mad )

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Hellion



Joined: 22 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hellion wrote:
As for reviewing and rating the WIP - I will give you kudos and a shiny new pencil to keep you happy and writing. But a rating or story review waits until completion
.


It may not be a formal review of the whole story but you will see it and so will the rest of the world when I ask for more. It will be posted in the review section.

I am also going to read and review from this list over the weekend. Especially you Space Weavil. I think you need some TLC in the form of reviews. I know from your posts that you have been working very hard writing. So you are going to the top of my list.

If I am getting off topic I'm sorry. Being a single Mom I don't have much free time but as a seasoned Mom I think I will spend some quality time with Space Weavil this weekend.
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