[inglor]

Can anyone hazard a guess as to why Beleriand had to be destroyed. I know why it sank, I am wondering at the author's reasoning? Anyone of the more well read have a clue?

Inglor the Grasshopper

[Eruanna]

[inglor]

Yep, everything west of the Blue Mountains sank. Only the Hill of Himring and Tol Morwen (?) left above the water. Seems like such a waste, and now that I think about it, all the Elves and Men that died defending Beleriand and for what... so it could sink??? Morgoth's defeated, oops sorry we sank your homes, sorry. Fingolfin shanked him what 7-8 times, it takes the destruction of a continent just to put him in cuffs? WTF ! With that kind of "help" who needs enemies.

"Here we come to save the day, unfortunately only after EVERYBODY has been made refugees. Sorry we didn't come earlier and save Doriath, Nargothrond, Gondolin, Fingon, Finrod, Turgon, Fingolfin, Aredhel, Aegnor, Angrod, and countless thousands of nameless elves from death or worse from a guy WE SET FREE. Oh and you'll have to relocate, we are sinking 9 million square miles of land"

"For the Men we have this nice shiny new CONTINENT far away from the troubles of the world, but for the rest of you (ungrateful Noldor, ungrateful Sindar, ungrateful Sylvan) dumb enough to love your present homes and not want to come live with us in eternal bliss and boredom, go someplace else, fend for yourselves we don't care about you any more. You missed your opportunity to grovel at our feet several thousand years ago, even though we made a mistake then, we are going to make it again."

The Elves couldn't catch a break with a gill net.

pfft...stupid Valar



Inglor the Chapped

Just in case you haven't noticed, I have a beef with the Valar. For folks who seemed to have a pipeline to the Big Guy they sure had a talent for assing things up.

[SpaceWeavil]

My understanding of it was that Morgoth, while he was holed up in Angband, was so powerful that they had to use some massive force to get at him and destroy his fortress, and the aftershocks of this destroyed Beleriand. Like the only way they could break down Angband was to wreck the place. (Because when Fingolfin, or whatever one beginning with F it was that challenged Morgoth to single combat fought him, didn't he actually bring Morgoth out, as opposed to actually trying to break in? Or that's how I read it anyway). So they might have been able to beat Morgoth if they could get him out of there, but so long as he had Angband to run back to, they couldn't comepletely beat him.

Also, and this might be totally unrelated, but in researching my Witch King thing I was reading up about 'Morgoth's Ring' and finally figured why that book is called that - in the theory that the whole of Arda was like a Ring of Power to Morgoth because he had corrupted it during its creation, so certain elements like gold had more 'essence of Morgoth' in than others, but that most substances had a little bit of him in there somewhere. So possibly in trying to defeat him and destroy his stronghold, this was why there was an after effect of destroying Beleriand, because of that 'essence' within the land?

I don't know if that makes the slightest bit of sense, as my head is splitting from doing a project on Scottish legislation right now.

[inglor]

SW, I remember reading that part about the whole world being Morgoth's Ring. That part struck me too. Your reasoning is very sound and doesn't help me at all . In the Fic I am writing, the good guys win (really win, not just survive) and this is a BIG problem to write around.

(Actually it's a good explanation and unfortunately, for my purposes, sounds like the right one)

Inglor the Revisionist Historian

[SpaceWeavil]

[inglor]

Hmmm, so Beleriand sank to wash away Morgoth's taint...

[Viv]

Also, this is less thematic than structural, but Tolkien was always moving his history toward the Age of Men. So, we had to see how catastrophic interference of the Valar could be, otherwise we'd be thinking at the end of LoTR, "Why the hell doesn't Manwe get off his booty and take out Mordor?" With the destruction of Beleriand, we see not only the awesome strength of the Valar, but how very horrible and interfering it could be, and we're more or less relieved that they aren't going to rush to our "assistance" anymore.

Plus, Beleriand was a land of the elves, and the elves weren't supposed to be here. Destroying their home was kind of an exclamation point to the whole "Get thee west, you lollygaggers!" thing.

[inglor]

[inglor]

Then again the Valar were gathered in council, and they were divided in debate. For some, and of those Ulmo was the chief, held that the Quendi should be left free to walk as they would in Middle-earth, and with their gifts of skill to order all the lands and heal their hurts. But the most part feared for the Quendi in the dangerous world amid the deceits of the starlit dusk; and they were filled moreover with the love of the beauty of the Elves and desired their fellowship. At the last, therefore, the Valar summoned the Quendi to Valinor, there to be gathered at the knees of the Powers in the light of the Trees for ever; and Mandos broke his silence, saying: 'So it is doomed.' From this summons came many woes that afterwards befell.

From The Silmarillion. Of the Coming of Elves and the Chaining of Melkor (that is the whole book online by the way)

The impression that I get from that is that the Valar were like over-protective parents, and as usually happens with overprotective parents, things go bad anyway.


Inglor