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Alassante
Virtual Village Mod
Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 20
Location: Hitchhiking to Rivendell
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 Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:44 am Post subject: |
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Nagzul #2 - The Nazgul of Shmoove
Crucio! Because stupidity should be painful!
http://alikat7.livejournal.com/ |
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Monarchsnake
Joined: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 37
Location: Delia House, Lothlorien
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| ghettoelleth wrote: | Uhm, if you're going to study ME, you should probably read the books and not Thain's. Thain's is a quick reference not a replacement. Otherwise you end up with odd, untrue little facts like, "Aman is a place in the Grey Havens"
Aman is the name of the Undying Lands
The Grey Havens is Mithlond, home of Cirdan the Shiprwright, located on the western shore of Arda. |
Thank you for correcting me on that. I always assumed the Grey Havens and The Undying lands were one and the same.
Thains did not actually quote such really. It was a mistake on my part to assume such. lol
I agree that the books would be the best place for resource, but for more direct resource and straight to the point instead of sifting it out is what I'm looking for I suppose. And The Fact, That I do not own the books as of yet.
I only read some of FOTR and then had to take the book back to the library, thankfully I'll be buying all of them very soon.
And then Able Participate in book discussions on this forum. (has a big excited grin)
Again, I Thank you all for the wonderful information. ^^ You guys really are helpful and fun.
Monarchsnake~
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Aragorn loves baking chocolate chip cookies, and yet he still reeks of old boots. |
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ellisk
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 579
Location: Icon by Alassante! Wow!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ghettoelleth wrote: |
Ell my darling, you can stop laughing any day now honey, I know how affronted you are by this whole thing.
By the way, you've got mail
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Sorry, Ghetto, I know I'm pushing my luck--and I am all too aware of how dangerous that is with you, indeed--but I can't help it. I like you husband more and more everyday.  I'm looking forward to two weeks of hearty laughter. I'll have to send your husband a polite thank you card.
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Ultima ratio regum (The Last Argument of Kings)--engraved on all French cannons by order of Louis XIV |
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miriel361
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 417
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Alassante wrote: | |
Allessante: I think you still have my email address. Would you please send me the original picture from which you made your avatar.
So I can perv over it privately? |
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miriel361
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 417
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Alassante wrote: | |
Allessante: I think you still have my email address. Would you please send me the original picture from which you made your avatar.
So I can perv over it privately? |
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miriel361
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 417
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Alassante wrote: | |
Allessante: I think you still have my email address. Would you please send me the original picture from which you made your avatar.
So I can perv over it privately? |
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NancyBrooke
Challenge Admin
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 160
Location: In a motel 6 by the airport
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Monarch Snake wrote: | | I am in the middle of studying everything in Middle-Earth till it's imprinted in my head so when I write fanfics, they are at least decently accurate. |
| ghettoelleth wrote: | | Uhm, if you're going to study ME, you should probably read the books and not Thain's. |
| Monarch Snake wrote: | | I agree that the books would be the best place for resource, but for more direct resource and straight to the point instead of sifting it out is what I'm looking for I suppose. |
If you are really serious about understanding M-E and keeping in canon for fics get yourself back to the library, and right quick.
The films are adaptations, which I know you know, but what that means is that many things in them are PJ's vision, not Tolkien's, and the two are not always the same - not just in events and dialog, but in characters, motivations etc. as well. So be careful: if you want to find background on something you saw in the film and pursue it online the information you get there might be a) from the books and, therefore, different or b) simply wrong (can't always trust secondary sources).
Now, there's nothing wrong with writing stories in Movie-verse canon (so long as you specify that's what you're doing and there's a whole section of this archive made expressly for that) but, again, if you're serious about Tolkien, there's unequivocally no substitute for reading the books.
And, when/if you do complete a fic (we'll say yeah! but-) look for a Beta to read it over before you post. An extra set of eyes is invaluable for catching everything from spelling errors to minute details about the effects of Lembas on Wood Elves. There's a section of this forum devoted to the who what where and how of Betas where you can look for and/or ask for one. I encourage you, when you're ready, to check it out.
And, in the meantime, just keep asking questions - there's plenty of detail freaks around here (me included) who are only too happy to fill you in on all the reasons their favorite character/place/event is the coolest.
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NB Duchess of WHY TF Cant'chu Punctuate, First Duchess of F*&(ing &*ll yur comma placement sux!
Nazgul #3 in charge of ducking & sniggering
Garo golf a conu ned i eneth aran an ir ho delitha ad |
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Viv
Challenge Admin
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 71
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| ellisk wrote: | | And she gave him store of lembas, the waybread of the Elves, wrapped in leaves of silver, and the threads that bound it were sealed at the knots with the seal of the Queen, a wafer of white wax shaped as a single flower of Telperion; for according to the customs of the Eldalië the keeping and giving of lembas belonged to the Queen alone. |
Yep, that's the quote I was thinking of! There's another one, somewhere, that says that Galadriel learned the secret of lembas-making directly from Melian, and implies that those two were the only ones who did it.
The Peoples of Middle-earth quote would contradict that directly, and also imply that "Queen" in the Silm meant "all female elf leaders" rather than specifically the Queen of Doriath. That certainly makes it less exclusive.
So maybe they were eating lembas all over elvendom. I should probably post a public apology to all fanfic writers who have treated lembas like the elf version of Starbucks: available on every tree corner. I've been annoyed with that all these years, but apparently they were right (even if they had not read HoME in all cases), and I was wrong. *blush* |
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ellisk
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 579
Location: Icon by Alassante! Wow!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Viv wrote: |
The Peoples of Middle-earth quote would contradict that directly, and also imply that "Queen" in the Silm meant "all female elf leaders" rather than specifically the Queen of Doriath. That certainly makes it less exclusive.
So maybe they were eating lembas all over elvendom. I should probably post a public apology to all fanfic writers who have treated lembas like the elf version of Starbucks: available on every tree corner. I've been annoyed with that all these years, but apparently they were right (even if they had not read HoME in all cases), and I was wrong. *blush* |
I seriously doubt they were eating lembas like pasteries in the coffee shop. I have always taken the HoME quote to imply that each realm's queen learned to make lembas and held the grain / skill to grow it. But I think that same quote also implies that it was very special (It was made for the comfort of those who had need to go upon a long journey to the wild, or of the hurt whose life was in peril. Only these were permitted to use it.) and not for three day journey to Bree.  I think you are safe to be skeptical of the passing out of lembas like it was candy.
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It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye.
Ultima ratio regum (The Last Argument of Kings)--engraved on all French cannons by order of Louis XIV |
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Alassante
Virtual Village Mod
Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 20
Location: Hitchhiking to Rivendell
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| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| miriel361 wrote: | | Alassante wrote: | |
Allessante: I think you still have my email address. Would you please send me the original picture from which you made your avatar.
So I can perv over it privately? |
As long as you promise to drool over it!
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Nagzul #2 - The Nazgul of Shmoove
Crucio! Because stupidity should be painful!
http://alikat7.livejournal.com/ |
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Texasgirl
Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 895
Location: Texas (no shit, sherlock)
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:37 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I seriously doubt they were eating lembas like pasteries in the coffee shop. |
me too - cuz if that happened, all the elvsies would have to go on atkin's, and that would be a teeensie bit wierd
| Quote: | | It was made for the comfort of those who had need to go upon a long journey to the wild, or of the hurt whose life was in peril. Only these were permitted to use it |
i agree - from that whole section, what i got is that basically, strength given to those who will need it, meaning those on "worthy" quests, (see fig. 1, "the quest to destroy the ring")
as well as with the earlier example of turin.
basically, lembas is (sooper speshul wickdly goood) elven-holy sing of worth, courage, and given to those who really need it - i don't think that haldir and co. out on the fences got any.
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Damn, I love my home - except for the fact the nearest bit of civilization is forty miles away.
*Other co-founder of the "Howdy!" committee*
*Other co-founder of the official  foundation* |
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NancyBrooke
Challenge Admin
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 160
Location: In a motel 6 by the airport
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| Texasgirl wrote: | | Quote: | | I seriously doubt they were eating lembas like pasteries in the coffee shop. |
basically, lembas is (sooper speshul wickdly goood) elven-holy sing of worth, courage, and given to those who really need it - i don't think that haldir and co. out on the fences got any. |
PLOT BUNNY!! *
Warning: if you are allergic to plot bunnies, if the presence of a bunny makes your writing hand itch, your keyboard twitch, or your muse a demanding b*itch please exercise caution when viewing the following paragraph:
If Lembas was so extra-special important, imagine the feelings of Aragorn, Gandalf (after-the-fact) and Legolas - i.e. those who would understand the significance - when they discovered Galadriel and Co. had given them a passel of Lembas. How would they feel: Awed? Justified? Humbled? Relived? and then -- what about when (if) they figure out how much the Hobbits are eating!! (Movie-verse, I know).
We will now return to your regularly scheduled shyte spinning ---
*also posted to the Bunny Nursery
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NB Duchess of WHY TF Cant'chu Punctuate, First Duchess of F*&(ing &*ll yur comma placement sux!
Nazgul #3 in charge of ducking & sniggering
Garo golf a conu ned i eneth aran an ir ho delitha ad |
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ellisk
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 579
Location: Icon by Alassante! Wow!
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| NancyBrooke wrote: | If Lembas was so extra-special important, imagine the feelings of Aragorn, Gandalf (after-the-fact) and Legolas - i.e. those who would understand the significance - when they discovered Galadriel and Co. had given them a passel of Lembas. How would they feel: Awed? Justified? Humbled? Relived? and then -- what about when (if) they figure out how much the Hobbits are eating!! (Movie-verse, I know).
We will now return to your regularly scheduled shyte spinning ---
*also posted to the Bunny Nursery |
Yes, definitely. When we finally get to the time of the Fellowship in the story I'm posting, I play a little with exactly that idea. I didn't really like how completely nonchalant (sp?) PJ played the lembas in the movies. The Hobbits might take it as they did but I thought Legolas and Aragorn should have had a bit of a 'the importance of this Quest keeps getting driven home' moment. Especially since they both might know the lore associated with Melian and the time she handed it out. Anyway, I think this is an outstanding bunny. Thanks!
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It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye.
Ultima ratio regum (The Last Argument of Kings)--engraved on all French cannons by order of Louis XIV |
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SpaceWeavil
Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 23
Location: Looking at shiny things
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| Texasgirl wrote: | | Quote: | | I seriously doubt they were eating lembas like pasteries in the coffee shop. |
me too - cuz if that happened, all the elvsies would have to go on atkin's, and that would be a teeensie bit wierd
| Quote: | | It was made for the comfort of those who had need to go upon a long journey to the wild, or of the hurt whose life was in peril. Only these were permitted to use it |
i agree - from that whole section, what i got is that basically, strength given to those who will need it, meaning those on "worthy" quests, (see fig. 1, "the quest to destroy the ring")
as well as with the earlier example of turin.
basically, lembas is (sooper speshul wickdly goood) elven-holy sing of worth, courage, and given to those who really need it - i don't think that haldir and co. out on the fences got any. |
I also remember reading somewhere (Unfinished Tales, I believe, in the notes for Disaster at Gladden Fields) that the Numenoreans had something similar to lembas, that was carried in a 'wallet' by all their soldiers, along with a flask of cordial similar to miruvor. They were supposed to have been taught how to make this sort of food by the elves of Tol Eressea.
So if the Numenoreans could make something like lembas, that obviously wasn't held in as high regard as lembas (though was obviously still important to them) then perhaps the elves had different 'lesser' varieties as well? Just a thought. But certainly the Numenoreans gave their waybread out to their soldiers when they were on long marches to war.
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ellisk
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 579
Location: Icon by Alassante! Wow!
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Yes, Space Weavil. Here is the quote you are thinking of, exactly where you said it should be:
| Quote: | | Though it was a long journey, each of the Dúnedain carried in a sealed wallet on his belt a small phial of cordial and wafers of a waybread that would sustain life in him for many days – not indeed the miruvor or the lembas of the Eldar, but like them, for the medicine and other arts of Númenor were potent and not yet forgotten. No belt or wallet was among the gear discarded by Isildur. |
And I agree. Surely they must all have some sort of way-bread for journeys, not as special as lembas but hopefully better than just cram.
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It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye.
Ultima ratio regum (The Last Argument of Kings)--engraved on all French cannons by order of Louis XIV |
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