[VanatheEverYoung]

A little help for a highly disturbed, debate-seeking writer, please ...

For those of you reading my fic, you probably know where this is going. For those of you who are not, go read it. (Wait. That's not what this thread is for.) The premise is that Elves have returned to Middle-earth during WWII to solve a mystery for the Valar. At the moment, they are running around Eastern Europe hiding from Nazis and searching for clues. Very soon, they will be taking a detour to Rome.

I've tried to stay logical in writing this. When an Elf sees a car, train, airplane, factory, elevator, etc. I have a handy-dandy OC explain the modern world to them. Now, back to Rome. Logically, a tourist in Rome will see, among other things, Cathedrals. That's right folks, I'm gonna have Leggy, Haldir, Elladan, and Elrohir get a Sunday School lesson. Now, we come to the problem.

By linking modern Christianity and the Valar, some aspects of both belief systems are going to be left out, changed, and re-interpreted. In summary, the Elves will be told that Jesus Christ was a Maia of Nienna. All of his teachings were correct, but men interpreted them incorrectly. That is, Jesus cannot save their souls, only Iluvatar can.

I am not very easily offended. My way of approaching sensitive and controversial topics is to dive in head first, which usually results in more of a belly flop than anything else. So, I'm coming to you, my fellow writers and readers, to ask your opinion on the matter.

There are a number of options I've considered. One would be to give my readers the middle finger and go about business as normal, but I'd rather not do that. The second is to slap a disclaimer at the top of chapter, and if someone doesn't like it, they can skip it. The third is to post a censored chapter here and provide a URL for the full chapter which I will post on my personal website.

So, you tell me your thoughts. If you're coherent, I'll consider what you have to say. Of course, if you are Scribe, Do, or Robbie, I'll listen even if you're not coherent.

Cheers!

[inglor]

I like the discalimer route. Dan Brown (Da Vinci Code) made a mint doing exactly what you propose. Some folks may get in a bind about your handling of Christ, but others may find it stimulating. But like Dan Brown, be prepared for FLAMES. If your premise is logical, has purpose and not just for shock value, most readers will be, at the least, able to tolerate your ideas.


I for one am interested in reading what you are suggesting. But I think you are right to want to warn people, a good strong disclaimer should suffice.

Inglor

[SpaceWeavil]

I did a story once called Daemonica, which was along similar lines to the Da Vinci Code, but written years before, and I was playing around a lot with Old Testament stories and characters. It all involved aliens and such like and had a lot of comparative mythology in it as well (which I was very interested in at that point). I shoved the longest disclaimer you have ever seen at the start of that fic, not only because of the religious ideas, but because my main 'baddies' were a rogue group within the Vatican, and I was terrified someone would think I was doing a hatchet job on the Catholic Church.

No one complained to me, but I think my story was so boring, no one actually noticed the controversial stuff.

I'm always very wary of touching on religion or politics in my fics though. I'm a natural flame-coward.

[Haleth]

It sounds like an interesting concept.

Tolkein himself dealt with it, though in an indirect way, in the Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth in volume 10 of History of Middle-earth (Morgoth's Ring).

[Yavanie]

I think as long as you are not trying to disparage any religion or religious figure but using the setting as a plot device and way of communicating the idea to "foreigners" (the elves), then a simple disclaimer stating that for the purposes of the story and no disrespect intended you have decided to ....... whatever your strategy ultimately is. I wouldn't go into long explanations of who or what you are trying not to offend. Just put a little note at the front so no one is suprised to read something that sounds different than what they may have been taught or think. It's your creation and this is fanFICTION. I mean if we all use LACE as a launching point of what not to do, or what to do, well then why not play with a little modern politics and religion? I say go for it, and now I must go read your story!!!(been resisting 'cause RL is so busy
)

[VanatheEverYoung]

[LuthienTinuviel]

Heck, it's not so bad. I enjoy those kind of variations, really.

I guess the latest example I can think of right now is the comic adaptation John Constantine, it plays a bit with religion, how Gabriel would defy God and unlease Lucifer's son, how Satans that whispers evil in our ears, how Lucifer looks like, their field of power, concept of heaven and earth. The damn movie's banned in Brunei and barely made the cut here *shrugs*. It's widely accepted and critically acclaimed. No biggie on the 'controversial' content.

Sure, some funny old folks stirrin' up the political pot might make a little issue of it here and there, but screw them (HAHA!!!)

IMPO, it's up to the write how he or she wants to make it and describe it, if the reader doesn't like it then don't read it!

[DarkElfChilde]

I say go for it, but a disclaimer in CAPS (or not) is always a good way for everyone to understand before reading it.


- DEC

[ElennaElemirre]

been browsing through the forums and found this interesting topic......

if you want my take on this whole thing, I'd give it a green light. I mean Tolkien was christian (wasnt he?) and if he seemed to have no problem tweaking the whole thing around then it must be fine isnt it? The whole valar and iluvatar "religion" has many similarities to Christianity.
But I also agree to you putting a disclaimer in the chapters to warn anyone who might be offended by it.

And if you really want to know, I think the idea is completely plausible.....and I'm a christian soo cheer up!

[KhazarKhum]

If you look at it from the point of view of Catholicism, then Jesus is of course the Human aspect of God. If you make it that humans (being fallable) have misinterpreted that, not realizing the nature of the relationship between Illuvatar & Jesus, it should be OK. Just lay the blame on humans & not God.

I believe that Tolkien ( a devout Catholic) didn't give ME a standard "religion" because he was afraid that his fans would take it to heart & start worshipping the gods he made.

[KhazarKhum]

I just had a vision of Haldir as one of the gorgeous archangels that fill so many Renaissance churches.... flaming swords...writhing, naked torsos....mmmmm.

[LuthienTinuviel]

Will it offend anyone here if I made any Islamic insertions to my fics?

I know for a fact that my cultural insertions are accepted so far, but much of it is Islamic when full force, so before I'm posting anything, I think I better ask first.

[Yavanie]

Luthien,

write from your heart! we are all here to share and enjoy each other's works and perspectives. If you feel you want to head off any undue criticism a short authors note stating that islamic ideas are incorporated into your fic should be enough to wave off anyone who might get offended. Tolkien was catholic and there are certainly way more than just catholics reading his work. The parallels are there but not offensive. as a christian I would love to see your perspective or any perspective of another religion woven into a fiction. There has been at least one and maybe more that has incorporated aspects of the wiccan beliefs. I don't think anyone was offended by it. IT was very interesting and I think added greatly to the depth of the piece. LOoking forward to your story!!!

[ellisk]

I think it would be fascinating Luthien--go for it.

[ghettoelleth]

Luthien, I would read it just to learn more about Islam from an Islamic. I think that would be very interesting.

Tolkien was not just a devout catholic, he was a devout Tridentine catholic, as am I (don't know about the devout). Ergo, he was all too familiar with controversy I'm sure, especially considering the era in which he lived and practised his faith. His generation viewed Vatican II as a political ploy and were the first to denounce the infallability of the Holy See. That was big beans back in the day. The Ainulindale is rife with Tridentine ideology, including the concepts of Limbo and Sainthood (Turin Turimbar). I think taking on the subject of Christ's humanity is well within the spirit of Tolkien and cheers to you Vana for running into it much straighter on than I intend to. All things considered however, we're all grown ups and I doubt if anyone's faith is going to be shaken by fanfiction. If so, its foundation would be the issue, not your story. Good on ya, girl.