[Monarchsnake]

I have some questions for you all.

When it comes to LOTR, Middle-Earth and other Tolkien based works. How do you look at other fellow fans? How do you look at the movie creators?

And How do you feel when it comes to website making concerning Middle-Earth, J.R.R Tolkien's works and knowing it is technically illegal? Falling under the copyright infringement.

How do you think the creators would feel about it and How do you think Tolkien would feel about it if he were alive?

To Answer my First Question, How Do I Look at my Fellow fans and the movie creators?

I see everyone AS ONE BIG HAPPY FAMILY!

This Includes the movie creators, They were looking to fans way before some of us newer fans, you know who I mean, the ones who were purely book based before the movies even came out, THEY looked to them for the Okay, the creators knew that LOTR could freaking bomb if the original fans didn't like it.

But Guess what happened? The Movies just made Middle-Earth, Even more loved, and gathered loads of new fans, especially for the books.

I believe the creators love us, and we love them. And When we see our fellow Middle-Earth loving brothers and sisters, THAT makes us happy, and we are elated to see them.

We All Love each other, we are all happy to see one another. We all share a common interest, and that is Middle-Earth.

Am I right?

When it comes to making Websites, I believe the copy rights should still state that it belongs to J.R.R Tolkien, Peter and New Line, Because someone who has never heard of LOTR (Imagine that!) could come across it and think you created it, and that very well could cause all kinds of trouble.

I also believe that people should do very in-depth disclaimers, to let people know they aren't making any claims on LOTR, But are just showing their very fond love for it.

Because face it, it's part of most of our every day lives.

When It comes down to it, I believe the creators, who are alive in the present, look at the copyright as a way to keep psychos from publishing crappy Tolkien related works as in physical book format, but I believe they are truly happy to see how many millions of fans have come together because of their efforts and do not mind that we do these things to show our love.

How Many Interviews? Or Things have you seen where, The Creators, Actors or anyone else involved in LOTR were very happy to come across fansites and didn't object to it.

That they just didn't want anyone claiming it as their own. I just know I have read quite a few of those kind of interviews.

Now those are some loving folks I say! And Again Don't we love them for being so free about it? =)

On Tolkien, I think he would be elated to see so many people loving Middle-Earth as he did, so many people believing in a world that isn't real to others but real to us and I'm sure very real it was to him!

Though I think he wouldn't want Slash related to his works, but that can't be helped, he made allot of slashy themes damn it, But aside from that he would be a very happy writer, that he succeeded so much in bringing his world to life.

Anyway, I'm interested to know how everyone's views these topics.

Monarchsnake~

[SilverMoonLady]

[Rous]

I do not view it as a big happy family. A close companionship, maybe, but there are too many differing styles and opinions.
Film makers must, by expediency, cut things and elaborate other to make films. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. In the case of LOTR, I feel it worked, but they also changed too many things. Some of the essence of the story were lost in order to make a movie everybody would like. And make a lot of money. Let us face it, PJ is no Mel Gibson, to make a movie just because he believes in it. So, some parts are sacrificed for the good of profits. I do agree that the movies made ME become more real. People could relate more when they saw it portrayed as a real place.
Whether or not we all love each other depends on whether or not you are a Hobbit or an Orc. Back to the differing peoples.

As for web-sites: you must put up disclaimers. But there is nothing wrong with a site that is ME inspired. Everything today is inspired by what has gone before. I doubt you could find much out there that does not carry the ghost of a stamp from somewhere else. And if a novice crosses your site, I would thing you would be ecstatic to share your love of ME with them.

I checked with a favorite author of mine concerning fanfic. Her words:

"I've never encouraged it on the web for legal (copyright) reasons, ie, that
it weakens a writer's rights to his own work. However, what readers do among
themselves in non-published format is fine by me.--cj"

She does not mind the playing in her worlds, but does retain the right to keep them pristine in the legal world.

To me, fanfic boils down to a reluctance to release the world created back into oblivion. It is an effort to keep it alive. And for some, escapism. They really immerses themselves to the point of longing for the created fantasy. I indulge, myself, at times. That is why I write. And for the most part, I try to stay within the spirit of the world Tolkien created.
I am very disturbed by the slash and other distasteful things I read. It is alright to write it, I suppose, but I hate the thought that newcomers would think this is what Tolkien alluded to. And I have found nothing yet to uphold that opinion.
Rous

[Alassante]

[SpaceWeavil]

[Ilmatar]

[SpaceWeavil]

[inglor]

I also think that since we are immersed in sex: tv, music, fanfiction... people tend to look for sex in everything. I am afraid that people now would think of tales of battlefield comfort, like two guys huddling in a foxhole for comfort or warmth with homosexual undertones. And since the only generation that had any first hand knowledge of warfare on a widespread scale is near 70 -80 years old, it is hard for younger generations to understand the unimaginable terror of battle and the depth of comfort derived from contact with another human being. I'm afraid that seeing sex in everything is a sign of our times. (Man, I sound like my dad ) Basically: since everywhere we look is sex, everything we see is sex

In regards to slash. I have come to terms with it. This is why: as a Het male I can't look at another male with anything resembling romantic feeleings. But looking at a woman is entirely different. Finding the female form both beautiful and erotic, I can read (and enjoy muchly) femslash because I can identify with either character. Male Slash, I can't identify with either character and therefore, find erotic slash completly uniteresting, even non erotic but romantic slash is uninteresting. I have to be able to identify with a character to want to read it. However, knowing the way I feel about women, I can turn it 180 degrees and can understand the female fascination with male slash and since the overwhelming majority of fanfic is female written hence the dominance of male slash. Somebody put it to me this way: What is sexier than one elf? 2.
I think liking slash or not liking slash is a subconcious thing and no amount of logic is going to change your mind, pro or con. Though I am in the camp that feels that the Prof would disapprove of Maedhros and Fingon or Arwen and Eowyn swapping bodily fluids.

While I can understand slash; Mpreg, rape (where it is anything but an evil act) and incest are abominations and no amount of skill can convince me to read it. My understanding only goes so far.

[ZeeDrippyVessel]

I had a lovely long response to this and it got eaten. So I'll try to recreate.

I don't think we are a big happy family. There are many opinions, many who are hardnosed about things. There are to many who enjoy sucking the enjoyment out of something that is for the most part done for pleasure. I would hope we here can respect other opinions and continue to converse in an adult like manner.

I don't think Tolkien would mind some fanfiction. Truth is, he did leave the door open and openly in a sense, invited it. I think he would be shocked at the amount of slash and what not. We DO live in a different time period, time frame and like SpaceWeevil, I think many of us go looking for the innuendo that wasn't necessarily there. I also agree with Inglor that many of this generation cannot fathom the horrors of living day in day out in a fox hole. I personally enjoy smut. I also enjoy watching the building of a relationship as well as the adventure of a quest. I am not a serious adherer to LACE, as I have a difficult time comprehending how a race that is so passionate about life can be so sexless.


I don't think Christopher is happy at all. Someone else made millions off of his creation. We've made his father's angelic creatures into sex crazed maniacs. Not to mention, the Tolkien Estate no longer owns the rights to LOTR or the Hobbit. Sad thing is, thanks to PJ, I and many others discovered Tolkien and am now devouring his works as fast as I can buy them.

I think PJ made LOTR out a love for the books. I also think the thing was a scriptwriters nightmare. I saw an interview on one of the EE's - either Fran or Phillipa - who talked about how horrid it was to convert to script. The time line was off, the set up of the books were off. They had to seriously consider WHAT was important to the story and what was not. Very difficult to do. I, for one, will NOT attempt to say what they should and should not have done. Even after reading the books, I think they did an excellent job and they deserved EVERY Oscar and every SAG award they got.

Slash is beyond me. I've said it a million times, I prefer to see the woman get nailed. I do. I understand the modern day woman falls into Middle Earth syndrome. (And not just because I wrote one!) We live in a time of stress and constant CONSTANT upheaval. I can fully understand wanting something seemingly simpler. As for the Elves, who doesn't want to think they can capture the interest of a beautiful, illusive creature? Of course, these days, I'm admiring manflesh daily. See, I came to the conclusion that when Elves get dirty - they die. Men, you wash their 2000 parts and throw them BACK in the mud (why? So you can wash them AGAIN and again and again!)

Real Person is a no-no. It is one thing to manipulate a ficticious character, but a real person? No! No and no and no!

hmmm... how off task did I get?

[Texasgirl]

[SpaceWeavil]

[Rous]

[quote="
hmmm... how off task did I get?[/quote]

Not nearly as far as you think.

I think Tolkien did leave plot holes and would not mind the filler stories that we see. However, as he is supposed to have been a staunch Catholic, I do not believe he would have liked the slash. It is the antithesis of his great epic. Otherwise, Aragorn would have gotten the guy in the end (no pun intended) instead of the girl.
I really get tired of people insinuating that two guys cannot have a relationship that is not homosexual. They say nothing about two women sharing an apartment and hanging out, but if it is guys, then they must be lovers.

And if the Tolkien estate no longer owns the rights, who does? Because in that case, I would feel no remorse whatsoever in diving into the creative pool.

And mpreg, did that originate with LOTR? I had never even conceived of that except in the movie "Enemy Mine" in which case, it was an alien and believable. But then again, it works for seahorses.

Real person, I agree. Un-uh. Most of them are married anyway. And if someone writes about real people, then they are no longer writing fanfic as it is known here, and does not belong.

[SpaceWeavil]

[SilverMoonLady]

no one is arguing that there is no place for slash, TG; and I don't think that anyone, Inglor in particular, would say that *no one* knows the horrors of war today.
The statistical fact, though, is that the majority of readers and writers in any given group without a built-in skew will be het; so quite aside from the unlikelihood of so many of the main characters being gay, active and out in the open, it can indeed be thought as odd that so many het fans are out there writing implosible slashfic when, with a little imagination and effort, they might write some very good het fic (which in addition, they might know something of the mechanics of it).
And while war may rage in some parts of the world, and poverty cause all manner of calamity and compromise (as well as astounding acts of bravery, faith and compassion), you must admit that few of us sitting here at our keyboards today have now, or ever will, possess those experiences. Speaking only for Americans, we rarely realize just how lucky we are, and how sheltered from true horror and danger.

But that is my opinion.... And only my opinion, which as they say, everybody's got one...

[Texasgirl]