[BittenBuggy]

This is probably and EXTREMELY overdone and boring question, but I've never understood the concept of a Mary-Sue. I mean, there are so many restrictions when you're writing such as... She can't be helpless, but she can't be Xena Warrior Princess, everybody can't like her, but she can't be 'perfect.'

Do you know how hard that is? To make somebody meet all of those qualifications. I don't really want to read about a mediocre skilled, whiney, stuck-up, lying character. Granted, those are all human faults, but this is a story, a fantasy no less. Can somebody help me understand?

I'm in the process of writing a novel-length story to post in the archive, but I don't want to write a Mary-Sue. Help?

[Ania]

If you want to find out about what qualifies a Mary-Sue, have a look at the forum called 'The Library' it's REALLY helpful and has some really helpful, funny essays about LOTR fanfic writing that help no end. They can also make you laugh.

[Viv]

Those library items have very full discussions, and certainly do take a gander at them. But I think I can answer your question very simply: all fictional characters must be realistic. Readers must want to either be best pals with the fictional character or want to rip her hair out at the roots. Base characters on people you know, but don't leave out their flaws. In real life, no one is perfect, powerful, and the long lost daughter of Elrond. Most people have (several) irritating habits (talking too much, leaping to conclusions, a horrible honking laugh, propensity to pick their nose in public).

Oh, and if the character is going to be romantically involved with a canon character, we need to know why that relationship is reasonable. That is, what about your original character makes her/him attractive and an appropriate mate for the canon character? For instance, Gimli might be highly impressed by a fantastic cook, even willing to overlook her somewhat scraggly beard and pudgy feet. Galadriel might have hooked up with Celeborn in the first place because they both enjoy night fishing in their underdrawers. In other words, just make it realistic. Most couples don't fall in love just because they're exceptionally pretty. Beauty is boring.

[Roisin]

A character doesn't have to be unlikeable, but perfect characters are boring.

Granted Tolkien fanfic is by necessity taking place in a fantasy universe, but IMO your main character has to be, at least to some extent, grounded in reality.

Roisin

[BittenBuggy]

[Roisin]

Hm, I don't think we're saying make her helpless exactly, just don't go too far in the other direction. Helpless is another pet peeve of mine, b/c a helpless maiden wandering around Mirkwood or the like would be a spider snack in about 3 minutes flat.

Roisin

[Andreth]

I understand your dilemma here, because a lot of people will label any OFC as a Mary-Sue, which is even more irritating than true Mary-Sue's are! Just my two cents, mind you, but I think the key to developing any original character, be they male or female, is to make them feasible. Flesh out their characters, give them some idiosynchratic behaviors, bad habits, fears, worries - in other words, make them real. These don't necessarily have to be tremendous character flaws or anything, just something to make the reader feel like they're seeing a real person and perhaps make the character a little more endearing.

And when something happens, it should happen for a reason. Avoid unexplained lucky occurences or just-because's. These things do happen to real people, but even in real life they're few and far between. You want the readers to become attached to the character and root for her success - nobody wants to root for a perfect person. I mean, think about it - you, personally, in real life, dont'cha just hate perfect people? Even though it's not their fault, you can't help but hate them. I think that's why people have such a reaction to real Mary-Sue's - because nobody likes a perfect girl who's hair never gets mussed, never has to worry if her pits stink, and everything always works out for in the end. She doesn't have any worries, so what's there to root for?

Anyway, I hope that helped and didn't end up just being one of the useless rambles I'm known for! Just do the best you can and don't let the worry about other people's opinion weigh you down enough to crush your creativity. It's all good.


Andreth/Anna

[BittenBuggy]

[Thuriniel]

My OFC has been called a blatant MarySue by some, while others have congratulated me on writing a non-MarySueish OFC ... it's confusing and frustrating (although I'm the first to admit that my OFC is a MarySue ... and I don't have a problem with it!). I've been involved in the world of Fanfic for a little over a year now, and I've finally come to the conclusion that there is no real definition of a MarySue. The MarySueness of the OFC appears to be in the eye of the beholder.

Also, it bothers me when reviewers/critics/writers use the term "MarySue" as a dirty word ... there are certainly really bad and quite pathetic "MarySue fics" out there, but there are also really good ones! And just because a fic only has the canon characters doesn't mean it's going to be good !

That said ... so what if reviewers call your OFC a MarySue? Are you having fun writing? Are you enjoying the process of developing your character? Are you writing what you want to write? I think these questions are the ones that you should worry about ! If you become frustrated and miffed because your reviewers are calling your OFC a MarySue ... then you stop having fun, and, at least for me, that's what Fanfic is all about.

Maria

[BittenBuggy]

[Maram68]

[miriel361]

If you write an original female character, someone is going to come along and label it a Mary Sue. It's a definition thing and everyone seems to have a different definition. Now I personally have the perfect definition of a Mary Sue: 'Everyone elses is a Mary Sue but my stories are definately NOT.' I hope you noticed the sarcasm here.


I agree that Mary Sue isn't necessarily bad; reading the same basic story over and over again is however. What I look for in a story is a new slant. A reason to make me read it and continue to read it.

Miriel

[JennnLee]

Miriel said everything I wanted to say, and probably a little more eloquently to boot. I think all of us who have written a story with an OFC in it has been accused of Mary-Sue writing, even when there has been lots of feedback to the contrary.

Ultimately, I write fanfiction for fun. It's certainly not something any of us see money from, so we write it because we enjoy it. So enjoy your writing, and create the best, truest characters you can, and have fun with it.

[Moralanqua]

I think that any of us who had ever created a female (OFC) character in a leading role, are naturally wary that she will be pigeon holed as a Sue. Some people do not know that a Sue is the EXTREME of the OFC scale.

There is no exact definition, but any OFC who has a ridiculous name, follows an unrealistic plot and causes Tolkien inventions to be ridiculous - is a Mary Sue. Gary Stu usually ends up being the same.

(Humour Fics get an exemption from this.)

It does not help when authors declare their character is NOT A SUE! How on earth can they tell? Its the readers who are the ones enduring Princess Foofoo from the land of Asfixia, half elf and Gandalfs long lost daughter - leggys new love muffin...

I have noticed that many writers (of a younger age) tend to start out writing Sues and extravagant fantasy cliches. They then end up flamed. Its a shame because they dont know the terminology of fanfic or that what they are writing is well known as "guff".

They really think that their fic is a one off spectacular!

I admit to writing a few sues in my first few months in fanfic. It was only after i learned what the cliches were that i scrapped the fics and now know how to develop a character. I can honestly say that NONE of my stuff nowadays has recieved the dreaded Mary Sue term in a review... For that i am extremely grateful and work dilligently hard (beta reader is a great help too!).

As with all things - it comes with experience.

I still hate and despise the purest MS fics tho! Princess Foofoo must die!

[Thuriniel]