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Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
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 Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:02 pm Post subject: First Person vs. Third Person |
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Lately I've found myself writing in first person more than third person. I don't know why that is, but it seems to come quite naturally.
What do you think about the pros and cons of writing in first person rather than third?
What I like about first person is that it is more personal, you concentrate more in only one character, and I don't need to worry about changing perspective too much, as it happens when I'm writing third person/omniscient narrator.
Any thoughts?
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Viv
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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I like reading first-person books. (Isn't Alice Sebold's The Lovely Bones written in first person? I can't remember off the top of my head, but it seems like it might have been.) At any rate, the con of writing in first person seems to be that it's hard to sell. I wonder if that's really the case or just another one of those writing-industry fanons.
Certainly it solves the perspective-shifting ickiness that is so prevalent in fic.  |
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Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Viv wrote: | | Certainly it solves the perspective-shifting ickiness that is so prevalent in fic. |
I have a very bad habit of doing just that and I've been trying to get rid of it ... although I'm afraid I'm not being very successful  .
Anne Rice's "Vampire Chronicles" are told in first person, since they are biographies, and I just love the flow of them. Of course, they're vampires and so they can get glimpses of what other characters may be feeling, but still the focus and sensations are concentrated on just one character.
I had no clue that first person books were hard to sell.
Has anyone read a book told in second person? I've only read one, it's just too bad that it's in Spanish ("Aura" by Carlos Fuentes ... it's quite the book, deals with sorcery and you feel like you're in a trance).
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Viv
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Thuriniel wrote: | | Has anyone read a book told in second person? I've only read one, it's just too bad that it's in Spanish ("Aura" by Carlos Fuentes ... it's quite the book, deals with sorcery and you feel like you're in a trance). |
Second-person has the bad taste of those choose-your-own-adventure young adult novels. Blegh.
Although Aura is beautiful. I've read it in English and Spanish, and it's captivating in both. I'd forgotten it was in second person... see how forgetful I am! |
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SpaceWeavil
Joined: 27 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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I've only ever read a short story written in second person, while I was studying English at uni last year. Can't for the life of me remember the name of it.
The only time I've tried to write in 1st Person (other than 'Grey Havens') was when I used to write Sherlock Holmes stuff, and was copying arthur Conan Doyle's style, writing as Watson. I found that to be a totally different ballgame to third person. I said once in a discussion about this that I felt much more immersed in the character writing in 1st person, that it was almost like acting, but I got shouted at and called a 'terrible writer' for saying that, for some reason. 
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Shanalir
Joined: 27 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| SpaceWeavil wrote: | | I said once in a discussion about this that I felt much more immersed in the character writing in 1st person, that it was almost like acting, but I got shouted at and called a 'terrible writer' for saying that, for some reason. |
-note: I'm writing this as an avid reader, and mostly from that point of view, with a little bit of insight from my attempts at writing. If I'm off base here, please correct me. I have a lot of opinions and ideas, but they aren't always as accurate as I think they are. -
SW, that was probably because many authors like the power and omnipotence that third person writing gives. I mean, in the third person, you know at least something of what is going on in every perspective. Although I will admit it's easier to build a balanced, well rounded story if you aren't having to pretend you don't know what's going on in other speres, and have to make each incident realistic as far as how the character feels, what they are thinking. I'n the third person, you show character emotions by describing what they feel, an action or movement they make, a description of the look on their face, etc. Overall, third person is preferred (in my humble opinion) because it's easier, and everyone likes to know what's hapening on multiple fronts at once. It takes a certain kind of author and reader to appreciate the flow and realism of a well written first person, and it takes a skillful author to perpetrate it successfuly. |
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SpaceWeavil
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Shanalir wrote: | | SpaceWeavil wrote: | | I said once in a discussion about this that I felt much more immersed in the character writing in 1st person, that it was almost like acting, but I got shouted at and called a 'terrible writer' for saying that, for some reason. |
-note: I'm writing this as an avid reader, and mostly from that point of view, with a little bit of insight from my attempts at writing. If I'm off base here, please correct me. I have a lot of opinions and ideas, but they aren't always as accurate as I think they are. -
SW, that was probably because many authors like the power and omnipotence that third person writing gives. I mean, in the third person, you know at least something of what is going on in every perspective. Although I will admit it's easier to build a balanced, well rounded story if you aren't having to pretend you don't know what's going on in other speres, and have to make each incident realistic as far as how the character feels, what they are thinking. I'n the third person, you show character emotions by describing what they feel, an action or movement they make, a description of the look on their face, etc. Overall, third person is preferred (in my humble opinion) because it's easier, and everyone likes to know what's hapening on multiple fronts at once. It takes a certain kind of author and reader to appreciate the flow and realism of a well written first person, and it takes a skillful author to perpetrate it successfuly. |
Oh, I will freely admit that my attempts at it were probably terrible. 
This too is purely my own opinion from my experience of trying out writing different stories. When I had that discussion the first time I was simply trying to describe my experience of writing both types and the differences between them. I didn't say I had a preference for either one. 1st person for me was like taking one character from a third person fic and just doing what I would do normally - ie getting inside their head, but doing it in a more intense way. I still have to take into account what other characters are doing and feeling, but I need to portray it from my narrator's POV, which to me is much more difficult. It's easy, in my experience, to get across that A is angry at B in a third person fic, but more difficult and therefore more challenging to me as a writer, to get it across that A is angry when B is the narrator, if that makes sense. I don't prefer one way or other, to be honest. To me, the story decides which way it wants to be written, and I get a completely different type of enjoyment from each 'voice'.
I can appreciate that a lot of people will prefer 3rd person, though, same way as some people prefer thoughts and actions to be explained out in detail while others prefer to infer it from the scene, if you know what I mean. I honestly don't know which I prefer as a reader. I've seen good and bad examples of both.
Actually, the reason I was called a bad writer was because the person I was talking to at the time thought that by saying I enjoyed writing 1st person, that meant I was slagging off 3rd person stories, which I'm not. I like both.
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SpaceWeavil
Joined: 27 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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 but as a bizarre coincidence, I just checked my hotmail account (which I never usually remember) and found an email with a positive review of my one and only first person fic still on the net (apart from Grey Havens here on OSA...look at that subtle advertising there, )
Anyway, apologies for that but of digression, but I thought that was just a weird bit of synchronisity, since I get about 1 review a year off that other site.
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Viv
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Shanalir wrote: | | I mean, in the third person, you know at least something of what is going on in every perspective. Although I will admit it's easier to build a balanced, well rounded story if you aren't having to pretend you don't know what's going on in other speres, and have to make each incident realistic as far as how the character feels, what they are thinking. I'n the third person, you show character emotions by describing what they feel, an action or movement they make, a description of the look on their face, etc. Overall, third person is preferred (in my humble opinion) because it's easier, and everyone likes to know what's hapening on multiple fronts at once. It takes a certain kind of author and reader to appreciate the flow and realism of a well written first person, and it takes a skillful author to perpetrate it successfuly. |
I think it's important to mention the difference between limited omnicient and omnicient 3rd person.
Limited omnicient (3rd-person verbs) = Following only one character and telling the story from within that person's thoughts. Most published novels are written in limited 3rd person, but it doesn't necessarily give a wider range of information than 1st person would. It does, however, provide the best stage for a writer to explore narrative voice.
Omnicient (3rd-person verbs) = Telling the interior thoughts and motivations of all characters, as if the writer were god. This is the trickiest POV, as far as I can tell, and, unfortunately, the one that novice writers tend to glom on to. Stephen King makes it look *good*, but most writers are lacking his skill.
Pro writers and editors (at least at the workshops I've been to, which are, admittedly, sci fi workshops) much prefer limited omnicient. |
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SpaceWeavil
Joined: 27 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Viv wrote: |
I think it's important to mention the difference between limited and omnicient 3rd person.
Limited 3rd person = Following only one character and telling the story from within that person's thoughts. Most published novels are written in limited 3rd person, but it doesn't necessarily give a wider range of information than 1st person would. It does, however, provide the best stage for a writer to explore narrative voice.
Omnicient 3rd person = Telling the interior thoughts and motivations of all characters, as if the writer were god. This is the trickiest POV, as far as I can tell, and, unfortunately, the one that novice writers tend to glom on to. Stephen King makes it look *good*, but most writers are lacking his skill.
Pro writers and editors (at least at the workshops I've been to, which are, admittedly, sci fi workshops) much prefer limited omnicient. |
Yeah, 'limited' over here is called 'over the shoulder' third person. I can't believe some of my English module actually stuck in my brain, but I remember that.
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Shanalir
Joined: 27 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| SpaceWeavil wrote: | | Viv wrote: |
I think it's important to mention the difference between limited and omnicient 3rd person.
Limited 3rd person = Following only one character and telling the story from within that person's thoughts. Most published novels are written in limited 3rd person, but it doesn't necessarily give a wider range of information than 1st person would. It does, however, provide the best stage for a writer to explore narrative voice.
Omnicient 3rd person = Telling the interior thoughts and motivations of all characters, as if the writer were god. This is the trickiest POV, as far as I can tell, and, unfortunately, the one that novice writers tend to glom on to. Stephen King makes it look *good*, but most writers are lacking his skill.
Pro writers and editors (at least at the workshops I've been to, which are, admittedly, sci fi workshops) much prefer limited omnicient. |
Yeah, 'limited' over here is called 'over the shoulder' third person. I can't believe some of my English module actually stuck in my brain, but I remember that. |
Thanks for the info/correction!  I hadn't actually realized that there were two forms, much less what the two were. I guess what I was trying to say ( but it got muddled) is that in a third person, you can skip from looking over one person's shoulder to another person's and thus give a very round view of everything that's going on. for instance in a number of my favorite books, it skips from third person focusing over one character's shoulder to another, to a third, etc. That way, many of the main characters get their shoulders used as chin-props, and the reader experiences several different points of view. I think that I got a little sidetracked in my last post  .
But anyway, I do want to say that I don't personally prefer one style over another as a reader because each has it's merits. As a (novice) writer, I tend to prefer the third person because it's easier to view my story objectively if I'm not so much a part of it. (On the other hand, that's probably why I'm so critical of my work, and such a harsh taskmaster to myself ) |
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LuthienTinuviel
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:08 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info, Viv!
I've never really had any preferences for style when I read a story, or any story. Regardless of how a story's written, it's true worth will shine as you read it! That's my humble two cents anyways.
For me, however, writing in first-person perspective comes easier. I have a lack of inspiration/time most of the time, and I get bored easily, so for short fics, I discovered it best to suit my purposes.
Third person writing has always confused me a bit somehow. I can NEVER really get organizing everyone's events and thoughts together, but I can do the limited one, albeit not too terribly. lol...
No help for it, I need more practise.
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Viv
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| Shanalir wrote: | | ...That way, many of the main characters get their shoulders used as chin-props, and the reader experiences several different points of view. |
 
Pretty interesting metaphor for the whole process, this shoulder business. |
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SpaceWeavil
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| Viv wrote: | | Shanalir wrote: | | ...That way, many of the main characters get their shoulders used as chin-props, and the reader experiences several different points of view. |
Pretty interesting metaphor for the whole process, this shoulder business. |
Seriously, that's how we were taught it. Although I remember at the time I had visions of the writer as some sort of creepy stalker always following their character around...
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Thuriniel
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Viv wrote: |
Pretty interesting metaphor for the whole process, this shoulder business. |
In Spanish we call the omnicient narrator the "fly on the wall". It's always there, observing the whole scene, but you never notice it .
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