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SpaceWeavil
Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 23
Location: Looking at shiny things
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 Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:15 pm Post subject: Middle-earth Exchange Rate |
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Does anyone know of any reference in the texts to some sort of currency being used in ME at all? Or would the inhabitants have just used a sort of barter system? I honestly can't remember seeing anything mentioned, but if someone can point me in the direction of a relevant quote or section, I'd be very grateful.
Basically this is for the Witch King story - just trying to work out what sort of system they'd have in Numenor, as I'm sorting out who does what in the royal household, and so what sort of 'money', if any, they have will influence that a bit.
Thanks in advance.
SW
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Haleth
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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Location: The ruins of Tharbad.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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I haven't found any mention of it. I've read an essay that specifically commented on the lack of currency in the triology (at least past Bree and I'm not even sure that it's mentioned there). I think there's some mention of having to pay Bill Ferny a ridiculous amount for Bill the pony, but it's a vague mention. No specific coins are named.
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Books would not be read, and pipes would not smoke. The day slipped out of his hand, running aimlessly to waste. JRR Tolkien. The Lost Road |
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SpaceWeavil
Joined: 27 May 2004
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Location: Looking at shiny things
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Haleth wrote: | | I haven't found any mention of it. I've read an essay that specifically commented on the lack of currency in the triology (at least past Bree and I'm not even sure that it's mentioned there). I think there's some mention of having to pay Bill Ferny a ridiculous amount for Bill the pony, but it's a vague mention. No specific coins are named. |
This was my thinking. I remembered people 'paying' for things, but could never remember Tolkien saying how they paid. I'm just trying to figure out who I need or not in Tar Telperien's court at the moment, which is why I'm asking. (If anyone wondered)
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ellisk
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
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Location: Icon by Alassante! Wow!
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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In Fellowship, there are several mentions of pennies:
| Quote: | | There was plenty of everything left for Frodo. And, of course, all the chief treasures, as well as the books, pictures, and more than enough furniture, were left in his possession. There was, however, no sign nor mention of money or jewellery: not a penny-piece or a glass bead was given away. |
and
| Quote: | When the old man, helped by Bilbo and some dwarves, had finished unloading. Bilbo gave a few pennies away; but not a single squib or cracker was forthcoming, to the disappointment of the onlookers.
'Run away now!' said Gandalf. 'You will get plenty when the time comes. |
But a penny doesn't seem to be what it is in the USA. Its more the old Anglo-Saxon silver piece it seems:
| Quote: | | Bill Ferny's price was twelve silver pennies; and that was indeed at least three times the pony's value in those parts. |
There is also a mention of pence:
| Quote: | | Mr. Butterbur paid for it himself, and offered Merry another eighteen pence as some compensation for the lost animals. He was an honest man, and well-off as things were reckoned in Bree; but thirty silver pennies was a sore blow to him, and being cheated by Bill Ferny made it harder to bear. |
Also, in PoME (p 45) there is a discussion of the money used in Gondor--it mentions tharni (which are silver coins) that amount to 1/4 of a castar. It also gives Elven translations of those terms (canath and mirian).
That is all I could find, Space. Hope it helps.
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Last edited by ellisk on Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:56 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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SpaceWeavil
Joined: 27 May 2004
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Location: Looking at shiny things
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, now you mention it, I remember seeing the Gondorian currency mentioned in one of my elvish thingys.
Basically, I'm working out my characters for part two, and they are all folks from Armenelos who would work for Tar-Telperien. I'm basing it very much on court structure from about the 1400s through to Elizabeth I, and was trying to figure out whether I should have a Treasurer / Keeper of the Privy Purse as one of my charcters. It also works for motivation.
So I'd expect the Numenorean system would be like the Gondorian, one based on the other, if you see what I mean?
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ellisk
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| SpaceWeavil wrote: | Ah, now you mention it, I remember seeing the Gondorian currency mentioned in one of my elvish thingys.
Basically, I'm working out my characters for part two, and they are all folks from Armenelos who would work for Tar-Telperien. I'm basing it very much on court structure from about the 1400s through to Elizabeth I, and was trying to figure out whether I should have a Treasurer / Keeper of the Privy Purse as one of my charcters. It also works for motivation.
So I'd expect the Numenorean system would be like the Gondorian, one based on the other, if you see what I mean? |
Definitely. I love this kind of stuff--looking into real history and ME history while writing is so much fun in my opinion. I love this kind of stuff. Yes, the total nerd (me) will go back into the shadows now. 
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It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye.
Ultima ratio regum (The Last Argument of Kings)--engraved on all French cannons by order of Louis XIV |
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SpaceWeavil
Joined: 27 May 2004
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Location: Looking at shiny things
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ellisk wrote: | | SpaceWeavil wrote: | Ah, now you mention it, I remember seeing the Gondorian currency mentioned in one of my elvish thingys.
Basically, I'm working out my characters for part two, and they are all folks from Armenelos who would work for Tar-Telperien. I'm basing it very much on court structure from about the 1400s through to Elizabeth I, and was trying to figure out whether I should have a Treasurer / Keeper of the Privy Purse as one of my charcters. It also works for motivation.
So I'd expect the Numenorean system would be like the Gondorian, one based on the other, if you see what I mean? |
Definitely. I love this kind of stuff--looking into real history and ME history while writing is so much fun in my opinion. I love this kind of stuff. Yes, the total nerd (me) will go back into the shadows now. |
Well, if you're a nerd, I must be as well. You can imagine my excitement when I went into a second hand bookshop a while back and saw a dozen books on English court life and history, all going for a quid each?  It's all really (probably) boring stuff, just trasncripts of palace accounts, detailling different pay for different 'departments' and events, and a few bits about the lives of individual, documented courtiers, but it is so fascinating.
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Shanalir
Joined: 27 Feb 2005
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Location: Umm, anyone seen my map?
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| SpaceWeavil wrote: | | You can imagine my excitement when I went into a second hand bookshop a while back and saw a dozen books on English court life and history, all going for a quid each? It's all really (probably) boring stuff, just trasncripts of palace accounts, detailling different pay for different 'departments' and events, and a few bits about the lives of individual, documented courtiers, but it is so fascinating. |
Yes, there's nothing quite like the thrill of finding books that you want badly for a price you can afford. Books are to me what shoes are to some women lol. |
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ellisk
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 579
Location: Icon by Alassante! Wow!
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| SpaceWeavil wrote: |
Well, if you're a nerd, I must be as well. You can imagine my excitement when I went into a second hand bookshop a while back and saw a dozen books on English court life and history, all going for a quid each? It's all really (probably) boring stuff, just trasncripts of palace accounts, detailling different pay for different 'departments' and events, and a few bits about the lives of individual, documented courtiers, but it is so fascinating. |
Oh! Are you kidding?! I am so jealous. I just eat that stuff up. I've got lots of that stuff in Spanish but nothing for any other country. I'd be particularly interested in docs from the UK. God I am jealous of you right now.
When I was in school, the professors loved me because I was willing to sift through pages and pages of decaying, handwritten, medieval docs in Special Collections looking for the particular reference they wanted. All the other students thought I was nutz but I thought it was fascinating reading. (Even in grad school the other students thought I was wierd, but in the end, of the people that started with me, only myself and one other girl actually finished their degree so I may be wierd but I'm also employed )
Sigh. Well the next time I go to London, I'm getting in touch with you (even if you are in Scotland now) and you are taking me book shopping.
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It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye.
Ultima ratio regum (The Last Argument of Kings)--engraved on all French cannons by order of Louis XIV |
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Eruanna
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 426
Location: Dor-Cuarthol, betwixt the Bow and the Helm...
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:04 pm Post subject: Nerds |
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| ellisk wrote: | | SpaceWeavil wrote: |
Well, if you're a nerd, I must be as well. You can imagine my excitement when I went into a second hand bookshop a while back and saw a dozen books on English court life and history, all going for a quid each? It's all really (probably) boring stuff, just trasncripts of palace accounts, detailling different pay for different 'departments' and events, and a few bits about the lives of individual, documented courtiers, but it is so fascinating. |
When I was in school, the professors loved me because I was willing to sift through pages and pages of decaying, handwritten, medieval docs in Special Collections looking for the particular reference they wanted. All the other students thought I was nutz but I thought it was fascinating reading. (Even in grad school the other students thought I was wierd, but in the end, of the people that started with me, only myself and one other girl actually finished their degree so I may be wierd but I'm also employed )
Sigh. Well the next time I go to London, I'm getting in touch with you (even if you are in Scotland now) and you are taking me book shopping. |
Gee, Weavil, I envy you!
Ah, books! To be a scholar like the loremasters of bygone times!
(Weavil, I am sure you love that scene in ROTR with Elrond at his escritoir when Arwen runs up to him...)
I took an exchange class in England many aeons ago (don't ask...) and missed the chance to see some medieval books in Cambridge because a term paper was due! Alas! I still mourn that opportunity missed!!  Huge vellum books on chains! I can still see them in my mind's eye thro' the 13th century windows...
--Eruanna, who loves the art and literature of HISTORY
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ellisk
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 579
Location: Icon by Alassante! Wow!
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Nerds |
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| Eruanna wrote: | I took an exchange class in England many aeons ago (don't ask...) and missed the chance to see some medieval books in Cambridge because a term paper was due! Alas! I still mourn that opportunity missed!! Huge vellum books on chains! I can still see them in my mind's eye thro' the 13th century windows...
--Eruanna, who loves the art and literature of HISTORY |
Aaaarrrghhh! I can't believe you did that!
My director was cool. He knew I loved this stuff and he had connections at the Library of Congress. Bet you didn't know that they have a big spanish lit special collection there. He got me three days permission to go crazy in it. I didn't get any applicable research done but I had one hell of a time.
But Cambridge! I would have failed the stupid term paper. 
_________________
It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye.
Ultima ratio regum (The Last Argument of Kings)--engraved on all French cannons by order of Louis XIV |
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Eruanna
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 426
Location: Dor-Cuarthol, betwixt the Bow and the Helm...
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: Nerds |
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| ellisk wrote: | | Eruanna wrote: | I took an exchange class in England many aeons ago (don't ask...) and missed the chance to see some medieval books in Cambridge because a term paper was due! Alas! I still mourn that opportunity missed!! Huge vellum books on chains! I can still see them in my mind's eye thro' the 13th century windows...
--Eruanna, who loves the art and literature of HISTORY |
Aaaarrrghhh! I can't believe you did that!
My director was cool. He knew I loved this stuff and he had connections at the Library of Congress. Bet you didn't know that they have a big spanish lit special collection there. He got me three days permission to go crazy in it. I didn't get any applicable research done but I had one hell of a time.
But Cambridge! I would have failed the stupid term paper. |
Yes, I still kick myself when I think of it!  --Eruanna
_________________
"I have returned from the Northern Fences," said the Elf, "and I am sent now to be your guide again." |
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