[inglor]

Edited by me after I read the replies

Sorry, deleted it. Safe to say Life for women in Saudi Arabia is not what it is in the West.

All posts after this were made on the original content.

I don't need another one of these on my record

Inglor

[SilverMoonLady]

It's easy to react to that and wonder when they'll come out of the dark ages in the countries that continue to segregate the sexes in this way; but we have to remember that the social and cultural context is as different to ours as night and day... Still, I do hope progress is made to improve the rights of women there without destroying the rich culture of that region.

[Alassante]

I have written a response to this about 5 times and started over. This is such a hot topic. I have strong feelings about this but who am I to judge? Like SML said its easy to react and I hope they progress.

I am really trying to not spout off at the mouth about things that are too controversial! Its too easy to offend people who live differently than you do. Its the differences of all of us that make this world unique.

[SilverMoonLady]

Darlin', you get mad points with me just for trying to express yourself in a mature manner about something so very passionate indeed! Most people forget to think before they speak:)

[Alassante]

[SilverMoonLady]

[ghettoelleth]

[DragonEyes]

well donno if my reply is of any help or importance...But as far as Lebanon goes it's laregly dependant on the social class within the country.

You see lately it has been swinging between complete extremes. On one hand you have people who repress their women in the name of religious belief, others because of ignorance born from poverty. On the other hand you have girls running wild with not even basic moral sense when it comes to sexual freedom.

One more thing is,it irks me( and I am not pointing fingers because it's done by people who are themselves Arabs) that they have this Harem picture in their heads when it is well documented from before Islam till after it that we had periods of complete freedom where you had women poets and even fighters within the army. And I'm not talking restrained poetry but open flirtatious poetry.

if you find any spelling mistakes or grammar ones blame it on the fact that I'm trying to register a course for this summer and the bloody thing is not working

[Texasgirl]

I have to agree with Al on this. It has taken me about 10 minutes to decide what to write.

I could really go on all day on this, and use my whole vocabulary of curses in doing so.

Personally, I simply cannot respect or understand much of Islam. I do not belive that it is a bad religion, I just think that the women aspects of it should be put through a shredder and re-written. I have met many Islamic people, and though all of them seemed to have really gret personalities, I couldn't bring myself to be friends with them - mainly, because every moment I saw them, I would silently yell, do you treat your wife like this? Do you agree with the ways your countrymen treat their feamle relatives? Do you condone this?

It makes me sick to my stomach just to see the pictures and hear the stories of women from South-East Asia - it is disgusting.

I know not all people there treat their wives like this, I know that waht we hear are mainly the worst stories, and probably have been embellished by the press, but swear to God, if any man tried to treat me like that, one of my friends, or even a woman I didn't know, I would risk all in confronting him and defending her.

To me and my morals, values, and everything I stand for, it is plain wrong.

Again, these are MY thoughts and opinions on this matter.

[DragonEyes]

well I could share the yells but not at Islam because as far as women are concerned the Qura'n is very very supportive of women. And this is not because I was born muslim but because I went through a faze when I actually had to dig things up and read to be convinced. You see the main problem is with the way so called religious men interpret the religion. And it's slowly fading now , atleast as far as this country is concerned and as far as my home country is concerned. I also believe that alot of people have a preset image of what the orient is like when it is a completely different reality. I am not saying a prefect one because there is no such thing but it is not so abusive as you might imagine. Now we might build up images from media or personal encounters but it is very difficult to generalize.

I'm a student a uni where you have an equal number of christians and muslims and we don't really have any issues religion wise. Tolerence is not such a big deal in Lebanon or Palestine. My grandpas best friend were both jews and chrisitians.

Now I could write a whole thesis on why Islam is really supportive of women but I don't think it would do to prolong my post any longer.

Anyways feel free to ignore me...just rambling away

[SilverMoonLady]

Well, just to put one point to rest, it is often not the spiritual aspect of a given religion that does the oppressing and aggressing; it is typically a problem with the clergy and elders who have for centuries found a very convenient quarterback in "God". You see, if it is "God" telling you that you should eat this, shun that and never ever disobey your elders, well, who is anyone to argue with such authority?
Part of the problem is that when the populace is poor and unlettered, it is impossible for them to go to the source and find out what is really said - and even then, remember, history is written by the victors, and the 'elders' are the ones who scribe the 'words of God'.
We residents of OSA are very free because we can *read*, we can *think* and we can (and often do) *speak*. This is a priviledge we are lucky to have. We are also free to judge, and free to refrain from doing so when we do not have all the information at hand.

[ghettoelleth]

Any atrocity perpetrated by any individual human being upon another will seek justification where it can. This idea that Islam is one huge entity on a feeding frenzy to defile all women based upon the practices of a group of people with a history of such behavior like, for example, the Taliban, is as silly as blaming christianity for David Koresh or Jim Jones or naziism for Hitler or communism for Pol Pot. When one human raises his hand to strike at another it is in that moment that a killer, a rapist an abuser or a psychotic is defined, not in religious halls or government chambers. We are all given the ability to discern as individuals the difference between right and wrong, good and evil. These are not laws, rules, regulations or suggestions, they are ideas bred from inherent knowledge within the human brain, knowledge that is manifest not created irregardless of what your beilefs are. It is our ability to articulate and create sophisticated ideals based upon this instinct that makes us human and seperates us from the animals. But even a lion won't kill if its not hungry or threatened. Ideas come from the minds of individual men, they are not born from entities such as churches or religions or creeds or governments these are things which in the hands of some become twisted to justify mens ideas of right and wrong or what is and is not acceptable. This whole "group" mentality is, in a nutshell, man's greatest problem in our modern world, the staunch refusal for any individual to simply accept personal responsibility for their actions and other individuals to assign personal responsibility for actions against them, I mean ffs, you get alot more money by suing MacDonalds for getting burned by hot coffee than you do from the wage earnings of the pimple faced idiot who didn't put the lid on tight enough.

What I'm trying to say and kinda failing miserably at here is, religions are not corruptable, governments are not corruptable, God is not corruptable, only the individual minds of men are caapable of being twisted. It is people who corrupt religions not religions who corrupt people. Anyone who tries to tell you that an entity or this bullshit idea of crowd mentality or being swept up in the moment is responsible for one single individual's actions, good or evil, is selling something. It's called the Twinkie defense and its a crock of shit. Remember this and take each person based upon their individual merit and you'll find yourself saying, " wow, didn't see that one coming" alot less in your lifetime.

[SilverMoonLady]

Oh, for a world of fewer sheep!
I have to agree with you, G, that taking personal responsibility for one's actions is at the core of what is lacking in those who point back to a book, a group, a guru to excuse their actions.
Own yourself, own your thoughts, words and actions, that is the path of a person awake and aware.

[ghettoelleth]

FFS Sil We can call your post, the Cliff's notes.

[SilverMoonLady]

very glad 15 years of self-discovery finally proved to be useful!!