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ArwenEvenstar
Joined: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 28
Location: United Arab Emerites
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 Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 7:18 am Post subject: Who thought...? |
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Who thought "Steward" ( I put this;" because his soooo mean to Faramir) Denthor REALLY mean to Faramir???????????! I shure thought he was when I watched the Return of the King!  Me and my friend were ' clapping' with joy when he died!
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BittenBuggy
Joined: 27 Dec 2003
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Location: Busy Being the Queen Of Everything.. And Trying to Catch the Yoda-Copter
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 7:24 am Post subject: |
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Of course he was mean.... That was kind of the point....  His favorite son was Boromir, as it often was with a man's first-born son in those days.
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miriel361
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 417
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 11:48 am Post subject: |
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But he wasn't really so much mean as crazy. If you've read the book, you know that he hoped to learn more by looking into the palantir. Unfortunately he wasn't strong enough to resist the pull from Sauron, who showed him only bad and horrible things.
So you could say that he was just another victim of Sauron as was Theodred a victim of Saruman.
Although yes, he had an unhealthy love for his eldest. Boromir was the soldier and Faramir was a bit more of a thinker. |
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BittenBuggy
Joined: 27 Dec 2003
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Location: Busy Being the Queen Of Everything.. And Trying to Catch the Yoda-Copter
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Well yes, in the books he was portrayed a bit differently. But I think putting in the movie that he was terrorized by Sauron via the palatir would have been a little...difficult. In the movie, he was just a big meanie 
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-The Queen of Everything - so dubed by Aerin
-"My ultimate fantasy is to entice a man to my bedroom, put a gun to his head and say, 'Make babies or die'."
-"The Pope! how many divisions has he got?" - Stalin |
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Andreth
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 1211
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: Who thought...? |
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| ArwenEvenstar wrote: | | Who thought "Steward" ( I put this;" because his soooo mean to Faramir) Denthor REALLY mean to Faramir???????????! I shure thought he was when I watched the Return of the King! Me and my friend were ' clapping' with joy when he died! |
Now don't get me wrong, as a movie fan I think the movies are cinematic masterpieces. But then my alter ego as a book fan has me questioning certain things that were done with the story and this is one of them, a big one. And it is exactly for this reason. Granted, Denethor was a complex character and to get the full idea of who and what he was across on screen would have been a movie unto itself.
But when Pippin first sees Denethor, he thinks Denethor is beautiful and kingly, and looks more like a wizard than Gandalf does, although Gandalf's strength is obviously greater. In other places, Denethor is described as looking like an ancient Numenorean and being like Faramir in personality. Why the script writers chose to take this noble and tortured character and turn him into the crazy, homeless man you always see in the movies, wandering around unkempt and screaming about the end of the world, is beyond me. Again, I don't think they could have portrayed his character exactly how he was in the book with the time constraints involved, but they could have done something a little more than this. Oh well, just one person's opinion. |
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BittenBuggy
Joined: 27 Dec 2003
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Location: Busy Being the Queen Of Everything.. And Trying to Catch the Yoda-Copter
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think Peter Jackson disrespected the character of Denethor. I just simply think he COULDN'T have done it another way. It's hard in a movie to have an scene where Denethor is looking all "kingly and beautiful" and then have him light himself on fire and then attempt to fly. It just wouldn't have worked... And it is unfortunate, because I always felt bad for the Steward (and family) in the books, they were just so dysfunctional.
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-"The Pope! how many divisions has he got?" - Stalin |
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Roisin
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 449
Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| BittenBuggy wrote: | | It's hard in a movie to have an scene where Denethor is looking all "kingly and beautiful" and then have him light himself on fire and then attempt to fly. . |
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sindohte
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 1621
Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 8:14 am Post subject: |
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No matter how terrific a job PJ, Fran, and Phillipa did in adapting Tolkien's written version of ROTK for the big screen, they were still limited by time constraints. The movie was terrific in being able to convey the majesty and grandeur of all that was Minas Tirith as Gandalf and Pippin rode up to the city. That was a big, visual type of detail that was easy to share with the film viewer. However, potraying a character based action like Denethor's slow slide into madness is much trickier. So the film makers had to make do with showing us obvious clues like Denethor slobbering over his meal while talking to Pippin 
Let that serve as a warning to everyone out there - once your table manners go to hell, you are just a step away from turning yourself into a walking barbeque pit.
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dolarabee
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Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 175
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 5:33 am Post subject: Re: Who thought...? |
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| Andreth wrote: | | Again, I don't think they could have portrayed his character exactly how he was in the book with the time constraints involved, but they could have done something a little more than this. Oh well, just one person's opinion. |
I'm right there with you, Andreth. If not more, at least a little different. He was miles away from what I saw him as when reading the books. MILES. And it's not John Nobles' fault. ::shrugs:: He was a tricky, complex character to portray but I found they shrunk him down to barely nothing. And the little they gave him wasn't accurate for the most part - and was very big and caricatural.
do. (Yep, still disgruntled.)
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Andreth
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 1211
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Who thought...? |
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| dolarabee wrote: | | I'm right there with you, Andreth. If not more, at least a little different. He was miles away from what I saw him as when reading the books. MILES. And it's not John Nobles' fault. ::shrugs:: He was a tricky, complex character to portray but I found they shrunk him down to barely nothing. And the little they gave him wasn't accurate for the most part - and was very big and caricatural. |
Thanks, Do. It's reassuring to have it seconded. I thought maybe I was just being too picky! Denethor is a character that most people just don't get anyway- on more than one occasion Tolkien mentions Denethor as an example of how he blurred the lines between bad and good in his characters.
Caricatural is a good word to describe it. That flaming roman candle impression was just the kicker. "What? Denethor's character still has some miniscule shred of dignity left? Well, here - we'll take care of that..." And exit stage left looking like Michael Jackson in a Pepsi commercial. *dramatic sigh* I suppose bellyaching won't change it, and there's always hope for the Extended Edition.
But, on a positive note, they did recover Theoden's character very well in the third movie. I was very happy with Bernard Hill as Theoden - he made me cry when he was rallying the troops at Pelennor. He did an excellent job. Makes me reconsider the appeal of older men.  |
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