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Viv
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Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 71
Location: Texas
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 Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 11:34 pm Post subject: Usage tips |
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Every once in a while, I see the same tiny error repeated over and over in fic. I can't help but think that some of these things are just done so much that new writers assume they're correct.
For instance: "breath" is a noun. It is the stuff that enters and exits your nose, by way of your lungs; "breathe" (with the "e" on the end) is the verb.
Anybody notice other things that we could all stand to review? (I think someone mentioned the difference between "blonde" and "blond" in one of those writing bits in the library.)
Last edited by Viv on Mon Jan 19, 2004 11:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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sindohte
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 1621
Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm, the only boo boo that I can think of at the moment is "where" and "were." It sends a shiver down my spine every time I read something like - "Were are you going Mr. Frodo?" Ugh.
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BellemaineChercoeur
Joined: 27 May 2003
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 7:17 am Post subject: |
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One that really bugs me is when what is clearly intended to be speech or dialogue does not have quotation marks bracketing it.
And on a really pendantic picky level, when "I don't know", is used instead of "I don't know," Told you it was picky. 
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JennnLee
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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Location: Orlando, FL
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 7:20 am Post subject: |
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I've seen a lot of them lately. I'm just picky by nature, which helps a lot when I'm at work, but it really does get in the way of my enjoyment of fanfic. But I've seen a lot of that kind of mistake lately, and the most depressing aspect of it is when the writer thanks at least two betas for pointing out "all her mistakes" when I see them jump out at me from the page. 
There/their, blonde/blond, were/where, it seems like as long as it passes the spellchecker then it must be right. Just now I'm reading a story in another window where Character A tells Character B to "Came down." Character B "repeats" back: "Calm down?!"
Of course that said, I found that Ell and I committed a where/were (I think) in "Eternally." I think it's in chapter one. We should go fix that.  |
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sindohte
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 1621
Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| JennnLee wrote: | | I've seen a lot of them lately. I'm just picky by nature, which helps a lot when I'm at work, but it really does get in the way of my enjoyment of fanfic. |
There have been times that I have stopped reading a story because it has contained a tremendous amount of spelling or grammatical errors. I don't mind a few boo boos, because anyone is bound to make mistakes in a story that can easily push 20+ pages.
When I read a story, I divide boo boos into 1st and 2nd level errors. A 1st level error is an obvious error that should be picked up by either the author or a beta reader during a read through of the material. That would be things such as spelling, grammar, and punctuation.
A 2nd level error is one the reader may not notice on a casual reading of a story. Problems with artifical sounding dialogue, inconsistencies with the chronological sequence of events in the story, abrupt shifts in point of view between characters, etc., Since these errors can potentially be more subtle and something that the author of the story might easily miss, I am willing to give them some slack in this area.
So that is my personal yardstick of how I evaluate the material that I read. Perhaps it might be extreme at times, but as someone who regularly writes psychological reports and other correspondence evaluated and put under the microscope by judges, attorneys, and other psychology professionals, I know my competence as a professional is often judged by the words that I write. And the sad thing is, there is little room for second chances.
Maybe this sounds like mumbo jumbo, but I believe that words are magical and can have power. They should not be thrown together haphazardly and put down on paper. They should be treated with care, because they can be one of the most effective weapons in an individual's arsenal.
The great thing about posting fanfiction online, you can always go back and fix your mistakes.
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miriel361
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 417
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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I make lots of boo boos. Often I don't see them when I read through . One of my best examples is stead instead of steed. lol.
However I am always amused when someone picks on my spelling, insisting that I am using an 's' when a 'z' should be used. Or words that are simply spelt differently in English English rather than American English.
I have also read somewhere that quotation marks are also placed differently in English English and American English.
In my opinion, both are correct useage.
What gets up my nelly however, and I have mentioned it elsewhere is the use of adjectives when an adverb is called for. For instance in TTT, when Haldir says "The dwarf breathes so loud, ...." IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN LOUDLY! And in ROTK, Faramir says "Come quick!" and I'm jumping out of my seat hissing "QUICKLY!"
Oh the one I don't like is 'their' or 'there' for 'they're'.
Miriel |
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Viv
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Joined: 24 Apr 2003
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Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| miriel361 wrote: | | I make lots of boo boos. Often I don't see them when I read through . |
Oh, golly, me too! One of the really nice things about this site is the edit feature (as opposed to ff.net's file-uploading doohickey, or the bother-the-webmiss-every-time-you-wanna-add-a-comma options of other places).
I was going to mention that bit about commas inside or outside the quotation marks... I'm pretty sure you're right that outside the quotes is correct punctuation in British English. I think in either case, the main thing is to be consistent.
By the way, I commonly misspell "the," so I'm hardly an expert on spelling. 
Last edited by Viv on Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NancyBrooke
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Joined: 11 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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What really twists my do is the perpetual lay/lie/lied/laid/lain confoozle (and when I can't find my grammar guide to preach about it authoritatively).
But the way I understand it is:
I lie on the bed
He lies on the bed
We lie down together (all present tense, active voice)
I lay on the bed all afternoon
He lay there with me
we lay down together (all past tense, active voice)
Then, with a direct object -
I laid down my gown
He laid me down on soft sheets of white linen
In death, we were laid to rest beneath the soft grassy knoll
Infinitive
'to lay me down just one last time ...'
Lain is used where one might think to use lied, but lied is the past tense of 'lie' as in not tell the truth:
to have lain there indefinately was my only dream
And finally,
Got laid last night, Dude
Hope that's helpful - N |
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miriel361
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 417
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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More to lay and lie:
My very clever and very thick Collins English Dictionary says the following:
'In careful English, the verb lay is used with an object and lie without one: The soldier laid down his arms; the book was lying on the table. In informal English, lay is frequently used for lie: the book was laying on the table. All careful writers observe the distinction even in informal contexts.' |
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miriel361
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 417
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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Ooops got cut off. So all you 'careful' writers out there - beware!
Nice examples Nancy. |
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NancyBrooke
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Ahhh! Brevity ... I can never find it when I want it ...
Good rule. Thanks!
| miriel361 wrote: | More to lay and lie:
My very clever and very thick Collins English Dictionary says the following:
'In careful English, the verb lay is used with an object and lie without one: The soldier laid down his arms; the book was lying on the table. In informal English, lay is frequently used for lie: the book was laying on the table. All careful writers observe the distinction even in informal contexts.' |
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BittenBuggy
Joined: 27 Dec 2003
Posts: 2108
Location: Busy Being the Queen Of Everything.. And Trying to Catch the Yoda-Copter
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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I am absolutely horrible at spelling/grammar... I'm dyslexic, which makes it even worse. And it’s very hard to find a good beta, *crosses fingers* (Finally found one..at least I think so)
I read over my work 5-6 times before I post it, but I just seem to convince myself that it says something, and that’s what my eyes see.  It’s very frustrating. Also, I’m very much a big-picture person, and probably not as meticulous as I should be....
Anyway, just my two-cents... 
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Ellbee
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| BittenBuggy wrote: | | I read over my work 5-6 times before I post it, but I just seem to convince myself that it says something, and that’s what my eyes see. |
I've found it's helpful to go over my stories backwards. That way I don't see only what I expect to see and errors stand out more.
-Ell, Queen of Typos 
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JennnLee
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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Location: Orlando, FL
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | -Ell, Queen of Typos |
You?! Nooooo....... There's so much I could say here, but I will kindly refrain.  |
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dolarabee
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Joined: 21 Apr 2003
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Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| Viv wrote: | | I'm pretty sure you're right that outside the quotes is correct punctuation in British English. |
Not from what I saw when I living over in the UK... and I did go to Uni there, though it's not like I was reading English lit. But as far as I know, the punctuation is inside the quotes. "Come here, my lovely," he said, his warm breath tickling the back of her neck.
What gets me, and that usually stops me right there, is summery. Yep, right at the top in the headers. Summery instead of summary. I mean, come on! Another common one is its/it's... and the past tense some writers come up with... he drug his ass out of bed. He what?
Not saying I'm above all these when I'm writing, but when I'm reading, they bug the hell out of me. 
do.
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