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huntersglenn
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
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Location: East Coast of the U.S.
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 Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:19 pm Post subject: Where In The Citadel Did the Stewards Live? |
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I'm trying to find some reference (if indeed, Tolkien ever specifically said anything about it), as to where within the Citadel the Steward would live? "The Atlas of Middle Earth" by Karen Fonstad has a map of the Citadel, but the only named buildings shown on it are the White Tower, the King's House (and a question about that below), Merethrond, and the house where Gandalf and Pippin stayed.
Also, with regard to the King's House, did Tolkien ever mention if it was kept in readiness for the return of a king, or was it kept closed for all of those years?
Thanks,
Cathy |
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Roisin
Joined: 11 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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I sort of assumed they lived in the King's house.
Roisin |
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NancyBrooke
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Joined: 11 May 2003
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Location: In a motel 6 by the airport
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Roisin wrote: | I sort of assumed they lived in the King's house.
Roisin |
I did, too.
And, not to contradict that, reading over the chapter "Minas Tirith" there seem to be more buildings in the Citadel than the few buildings Karen Fonstad documents. Pippin and Gandalf are led to their housing through "a lane between tall buildings of stone. After several turns they came to house close to the wall of the citadel upon the north side," which, implies to me, some distance, and some few buildings, probably decreasing in height to allow for some light to reach the inner ones. But Tolkien gives little great description I could find, and no note about where Denethor dwelt, Faramir returned upon leaving the Houses of Healing, etc.
Like Roisin, I assumed that the Stewards after some MANY generations had moved into the Kings House. I mean, why not?
Now, that might make a good story ... Which Steward was it and was it a controversial decision? |
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Robbie
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Joined: 22 Jun 2003
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Location: Sydney, Australia.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Where In The Citadel Did the Stewards Live? |
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| huntersglenn wrote: | | Where In The Citadel Did the Stewards Live? |
In a series of small walls.
(Eddie Izzard Joke)
_________________
Rob
www.crackingegg.com |
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huntersglenn
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
Posts: 5
Location: East Coast of the U.S.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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In the chapter on Minas Tirith, The author does state that "The Citadel held many buildings - more than appear on the accompanying map, for they were omitted from most of Tolkien's sketches and received passing reference in the text."
In one of the maps, there is a large building to the left of the White Tower, and it's not identified (as are a few smaller buildings). It could be the house where the Steward and his family lived...
There are also rooms in the White Tower, but I don't think it's ever mentioned that they were for offices only, or also for living -- if there were a mixture, then it could be possible that the Steward would live there.
As to them living in the King's House, I've read some scholarly essays that mentioned that the original position of the Stewards would have been tending to the King's household and castle. In light of that, it could be reasonable for the Stewards to continue to stay near the king, even after their own status changed.
I've seen so many different things in various fanfics, but wanted to know if there was anything definite on the subject. Thanks to everyone who's responded so far (even the Eddie Izzard joke was amusing, although a roof and floor probably should have been added  ) -- all theories are welcomed. |
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NancyBrooke
Challenge Admin
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 160
Location: In a motel 6 by the airport
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| huntersglenn wrote: | | As to them living in the King's House, I've read some scholarly essays that mentioned that the original position of the Stewards would have been tending to the King's household and castle. |
Were these Tolkien specific? If so, could you post a link? |
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huntersglenn
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
Posts: 5
Location: East Coast of the U.S.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| I'll have to track that down again. I ran across those essays when I did a google search, and right now I can't remember the exact phrase I used that got those results (I'd tried many different ones that day). As soon as I find it again, I'll post that link. |
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huntersglenn
Joined: 03 Jan 2004
Posts: 5
Location: East Coast of the U.S.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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Found it! The essay that I mentioned in one of my replies is by Michael Martinez, and can be found here:
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/92091
The essay discusses stewards in medieval Europe and which traditions might have been used by Tolkien when he created the stewards for Gondor. (but no mention on where they actually lived, darn it!) |
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GypsieRose
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 105
Location: Illinois, USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Roisin wrote: | I sort of assumed they lived in the King's house.
Roisin |
I don't think they would do that. If they wouldn't sit on the King's throne or use the crown, I don't think they would use the King's residence. I'm sure the empty house, like the empty throne and the dead White Tree, would have become a symbol of the waiting until the King returned.
Since there was a Steward even in the days when there was also a King, and since the Steward was expected to work closely with the King, I would imagine that the Stewards probably have their own house in the highest circle by the tower. It's probably near the King's house so that the Steward could be reached quickly in an emergency.
Off the top of my head, I don't know if there is any detailed information on what rooms would have been in the White Tower. However, the fact that a temporary bed has to be made up for Faramir while he is lying there in his fever suggests that it wouldn't have residential rooms.
--Rose |
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