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Forest
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 103
Location: UK
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 Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:32 am Post subject: Elven Executions? |
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I'm currently writing a LOTR fic based on the general story of Hamlet and I was wondering. If an elf killed (for whatever reason) another elf who was in high status (e.g. Thranduil, Celeborn, Elrond, Galadriel etc etc) and were found out, what would the punishment be? My original thought was execution, you know, like an eye for an eye....and also the fact that it *was* murder. But then again, would an execution be classed as kinslaying, even given the circumstances? Maybe they'd banish them, I don't know. But even harsh banishment seems to me to be a pretty lax punishment for murder.
What do you guys think?
Cheers
~Forest |
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Alassante
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:54 am Post subject: |
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In the first age, both Eol and Maeglin were executed but Eol killed his wife who happened to be the King of Gondolin's sister. His son Maeglin was also killed, I think in the same way but I am not 100% sure, for betraying Gondolin and bringing about its ruin and many deaths (including the King of Gondolin). So those were pretty serious offenses.
The kinslayings were different from death as a punishment. The elves that were killed during the kinslayings were innocent victims.
There is a thread based on this subject in the Writing hints section:
http://www.openscrolls.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1979
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Forest
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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Ahhh right thanks a lot  I'll head over there now.
Thanks again.
~Forest |
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ellisk
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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Although I know there are Eol and Maeglin in the Silm, I personally don't think execution was a common elven punishment. Look at how the Valar reacted when Feanor even threatened his half brother--they exiled him. And the Valar never used execution for any criminal--not even Morgoth. And I definitely think it would depend greatly on who you had employ it. I might be able to believe the decendents of the Noldor would use execution, but I cannot see Celeborn, Thranduil, Oropher or any of the Sindar that were present in Doriath when it was revealed that the kinslaying took place would use it. That's my two cents.
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Alassante
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ellisk wrote: | | I might be able to believe the decendents of the Noldor would use execution, but I cannot see Celeborn, Thranduil, Oropher or any of the Sindar that were present in Doriath when it was revealed that the kinslaying took place would use it. That's my two cents. |
You are such an elven snob. Its alllllll about the oh so innocent Sindar eh? You are such a Thranduil fan.  hehe Just kidding El. 
Seriously, you're right. I would think death would be pretty hard punishment to dish out for any leader. Even Eol and Maeglin's deaths could be chalked up to 'heat of the moment' revenge type punishments. It wasn't like anyone sat there and logically thought out what to do with them it was more like 'dang Maeglin just sold us out to Morgoth causing all of us to flee for our lives and resulting in the death of many people and destruction of our city. Get 'em!!' 
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ellisk
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Alassante wrote: |
You are such an elven snob. Its alllllll about the oh so innocent Sindar eh? You are such a Thranduil fan. hehe Just kidding El. |
And I even tried including Celeborn in there to throw everyone off the scent but I can see I can't fool you for a minute.  
| Quote: | | Seriously, you're right. I would think death would be pretty hard punishment to dish out for any leader. Even Eol and Maeglin's deaths could be chalked up to 'heat of the moment' revenge type punishments. It wasn't like anyone sat there and logically thought out what to do with them it was more like 'dang Maeglin just sold us out to Morgoth causing all of us to flee for our lives and resulting in the death of many people and destruction of our city. Get 'em!!' |
Yeah, that's pretty much how I see it too and it especially works since the First Age Elves seem to be much more hot-blooded than Third Age ones.
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Alassante
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| ellisk wrote: |
Yeah, that's pretty much how I see it too and it especially works since the First Age Elves seem to be much more hot-blooded than Third Age ones. |
Hot blooded...*Sigh*... thats why we likes them precious. 
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Rhapsody
Joined: 11 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| Alassante wrote: | | ellisk wrote: |
Yeah, that's pretty much how I see it too and it especially works since the First Age Elves seem to be much more hot-blooded than Third Age ones. |
Hot blooded...*Sigh*... thats why we likes them precious. |
Very muchly
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ghettoelleth
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 5:05 am Post subject: |
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No no, there weren't eleven, there were only nine....oh hehe 
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Forest
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 7:04 am Post subject: |
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Hmmm alrighty. Thanks this helps a lot - I may either rethink the ending of the story, or make it AU. But I do like a challenge so...er...yeah, lol.
Thanks again
~Forest
PS: Hot blooded elves are gooooddd!!!!  |
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