[Neniel]

I have been meaning to set this topic on discussion for quite some time now… What do you think would have been the fate of Elrond’s twin sons?

Although, to my knowledge, Tolkien doesn’t seem to mention anything in specific as far as Elladan and Elrohir are concerned, pretty much every other Half-Elf in the cosmos he created was met with a dire fate. Dior and his wife were slain in Doriath because they stood in the way of Fëanor’s sons in their search for the Silmaril. Their two infant sons Eluréd and Elurín were taken to the woods by Celegorm’s servants never to be heard of since.

Having escaped the destruction of Doriath, many years later Elwing flung herself to the sea to escape the same brothers, taking the Silmaril with her, only to be saved by Ulmo and in the form of a great white bird she reached her sailing husband’s side. Eärendil for his part took on the task to alert the Valar of the woes of Middle-Earth, but was never again aloud to set his eyes on the beloved lands; rather he was given his ship that was turned into a star to sail the skies and give hope from afar.

Elrond and Elros, Elwing and Eärendil’s twin sons, share their own story. Elros chose the fate of Men and became the First King of Númenor while Elrond chose to remain an immortal and watched his brother and his descendants live and die, one generation after the other, while he was ever the same. His own life was not as easy either, the details of which with Gil-Galad and Celebrían and the building of Imladris would be too long to recount here. But when many years later he took one last descendant of his brother’s line into his house, that man grew to steal his daughter’s heart and life.

Arwen’s fate is of course known to almost everyone. She forsook her immortality and stayed behind, while her kin sailed away, to stand on Aragorn’s side, another Peredhel’s (Half-Elven) fate sealed with a touch of tragic.

But what of the twins Elrohir and Elladan?

Did they forever stay behind, immortals among Men for their sister and foster brother’s sake? But that would be a fate tragic beyond any other, because they would truly carry the burdens of such a world alone. Personally I believe that after Aragorn’s death and Arwen’s fading in the silent Woods of Lothlorien there would be nothing left to keep them behind. Not even their nephews and nieces, Aragorn and Arwen’s children would be able to fill that void.

Did they sail across the Sea then to join their father and mother in the Undying Lands? If so, it is certainly not mentioned. And they left neither when Elrond sailed across nor when Legolas built the seemingly last ship to take Gimli with him.

Or did they both choose the fate of their sister and decided to walk the path of mortal men? But then, why would Tolkien not mention of such an important event?

Some even claim that they shared their father’s fate, that one would choose the Fate of Men while the other would sail away to Valinor. This I find to be the worst possible outcome yet. Certainly it happened before with Elrond and Elros, but they were hardly over 100 years old. Elladan and Elrohir on the other hand had already shared a good deal of centuries in each other’s presence and to be thus separated is nothing less than tragic.

What do the rest of you think? What could the fate of the twin half-elven brothers be?

[Rhapsody]

Look into the Letters of Tolkien. Letter 153.

Elrond chose to be among the Elves. His children – with a renewed Elvish strain, since their mother was Celebrían dtr. of Galadriel – have to make their choices. Arwen is not a 're-incarnation' of Lúthien (that in the view of this mythical history would be impossible, since Lúthien has died like a mortal and left the world of time) but a descendant very like her in looks, character, and fate. When she weds Aragorn (whose love-story elsewhere recounted is not here central and only occasionally referred to) she 'makes the choice of Lúthien', so the grief at her parting from Elrond is specially poignant. Elrond passes Over Sea. The end of his sons, Elladan and Elrohir, is not told: they delay their choice, and remain for a while.

[inglor]

Pure conjecture here but I like to think they stayed with thier grandfather, Celeborn and returned when he did. In the LotR prologue, its said that "When he finally left, the last memory of the Elder Days went with him." Or something like that (no books handy at this moment). But this line, to me anyway, says that he did finally take ship and go to Valinor.
It also said somewhere that Celeborn left Lorien and went to Imladris where The Twins were. I get the impression that Celeborn stayed for a WHILE and was one of the last Elves to sail. I would think they would hang with him for a while and leave with him too.

Again, this is all conjecture based on the prologue line and another line where it said that Celeborn and the Twins were in Imladris after the begining of the 4th Age.


Inglor

There's a bunny for ya.

[VanatheEverYoung]

I had this discussion with my best friends, who are identical twins. They think Elros is a bastard for "betraying" Elrond, and it doesn't matter that he created the Numenorean race. (I believe they said something along the lines of 'f*ck Aragorn'). They're positive that Elladan and Elrohir stuck together, no matter what.

It made for a lively discussion, even if their only proof is "Well, we wouldn't split up." I tend to agree with them. Inglor made my other points about the twins staying with Celeborn.

[Yavanie]

well speaking as an identical twin (well genetically they say we are identical and we look identical....) we couldn't be more un-alike in philosphies of life and life choices. We have both made choices I would never have thought either of us would have made, considering the way we were raised. Each of us have made choices for good and bad but they did send us in very different directions.

we will always be twins, and close in many ways, our choices have drawn us far apart in others. I can very well identify with the choices of Elrond and Elros and my heart breaks for the pain on each side, but also the eternal consequences of each proved fruitful as well.

[Rhapsody]

[VanatheEverYoung]

I know I was under that impression from something I read. At the moment, I can't remember where. Give a while to look through some books and I'll get back to you. But you know that Tolkien never used the words twins at all, don't you? He never called Elladan and Elrohir twins, but here we are, talking about twins.

[Rhapsody]

They are referred to as brethren a couple of times. They are both born 130 TA, while the actualy day of birth of Elrond and Elros is never given (assumed yes, but not given by Tolkien).

From the Sil: Bright Eärendil was then lord of the people that dwelt nigh to Sirion's mouths; and he took to wife Elwing the fair, and she bore to him Elrond and Elros, who are called the Half-elven.

It is not said they were born around the same time. Another quote:
In Middle-earth dwelt also Gil-galad the High King, and with him was Elrond Half-elven, who chose, as was granted to him, to be numbered among the Eldar; but Elros his brother chose to abide with Men. And from these brethren alone has come among Men the blood of the Firstborn and a strain of the spirits divine that were before Arda; for they were the sons of Elwing, Dior's daughter, Lúthien's son, child of Thingol and Melian; and Eärendil their father was the son of Idril Celebrindal, Turgon's daughter of Gondolin.

Still no mention of them being born in the same year.

And another quote:
Gil-galad son of Fingon was their king, and with him was Elrond Half-elven, son of Eärendil the Mariner and brother of Elros first king of Númenor.

So dig it up, I am curious: The letters of Tolkien, UT, LOTR and the Silmarillion don't say a single thing about it.

[SpaceWeavil]

I'm jumping into this a bit late, so forgive me if I've mistook the question, Rhaps -

If it's Elros / Elrond's birth date you're looking for, it's given in Unfinished Tales (I believe) in the list of the kings of Numenor - Elros is said to have been born '52 years before the second age began.'

If that wasn't what you were discussing, forgive me. I am being a bit of a melon all round today.

SW

[SpaceWeavil]

[VanatheEverYoung]

Well, if Spacey doesn't know, neither will I.

I did find where there are called twins. It's not canon, but neither would I call it "fanon" exactly. In Tyler's "The Complete Tolkien Companion" the entry on Elros says, "The son of Earendil the Mariner and twin brother of Elrond." I say it's not fanon because I didn't find it in a fanfic, but I'll admit it's not canon.

[Rhapsody]

I have Tyler as well and has quite some mistakes, honestly (some jarring ones as well). So I wouldn't qualify that as a quality source. I am not relying on it for a single minute.

Space, it's more about how they are being referred to. I can assume, given the manner how (half)-elves are born that if one year is stated, they are twins. This is the case with Elladan and Elrohir, for Elrond and Elros... I am not certain. Basically also since I read stories were Elros is pictured as the elder brother of Elrond. I haven't checked HOME (12 volumes to go through is not that quickly done).

If Elros is mentioned alone for a year in UT... where does that leave Elrond?

[VanatheEverYoung]

[SpaceWeavil]

[Rhapsody]

I will look for you, and even so, there are some things Tolkien never could never decide on. Celeborn is one example of it. And for the Lay of Leithian for example, in one of the first drafts, instead of Beren, Maglor is mentioned. Go figure.