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NancyBrooke
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 Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 4:06 pm Post subject: Palantir question |
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Could the palantiri see into the future and/or the past?
In TT Faramir tells Frodo, in parting:
| Quote: | | Until that time, or some other time beyond the vision of the Seeing-stones of Numenor, farewell! |
and Gandalf tells Pippin:
| Quote: | | Even now my heart desires to test my will upon it, to see if I could not wrench it fom him [Sauron] and and turn it where I would - to look across the wide seas of water and of time to Tirion the Fair, and perceive the unimaginable hand and mind of Feanor at their work, while both the White Tree and the Golden were in flower! |
What d'y'all think?
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ellisk
Joined: 23 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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I think so and those would be the quotes I'd be thinking of, but I have definitely always thought that. I see them as like Galadriel's mirror in that respect. Cool question, Nancy.
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Neniel
Joined: 29 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:02 am Post subject: |
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I agree as well, although I suppose it would take some considerable mindpower to guide it in the exact paths of future or past desired. Otherwise, it must have been more like a jumble of pictures interfering with the normal 'connections'...
...and I have successfully managed to make it sound like we're talking about a radio... 
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Sirannon
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
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Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| Neniel wrote: | | ...and I have successfully managed to make it sound like we're talking about a radio... |
nah, more like a cell phone..
Though, I agree that the abilities of the palantiri would depend entirely upon how powerful the user is. I guess much like the ring. That is my impression anyway. Don't have any handy quotes right now.
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Rhapsody
Joined: 11 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Nancy, I recall that Unfinished Tales has a big chunk on the Palantir... maybe that answers your question.
But the Minas Tirith stone was corrupted by Sauron, so whatever Denethor saw: it was what Sauron wanted him to believe... The most pure one was at the Tower Hills (border of the Shire), which had a direct communication line with Valinor (I am going by memory here).
Maybe it's nice to know that Fëanor made them?
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inglor
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:23 am Post subject: |
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That Feanor guy was quite handy
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Sirannon
Joined: 04 Jan 2005
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:38 am Post subject: |
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just read the part in unfinished tales. It says in the notes that you could see pictures from the past. It states nowhere that the stones would show future events. The ability to control these visions would depend on how well trained you were in commanding the stones.
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NancyBrooke
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 10:29 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, Gang, that's all very helpful.
| Rhapsody wrote: | | But the Minas Tirith stone was corrupted by Sauron, so whatever Denethor saw ... |
Did I say this had anything to do with Denethor? 
Rhapsody! You see right through me ... 
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Rhapsody
Joined: 11 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| NancyBrooke wrote: | Thanks, Gang, that's all very helpful.
| Rhapsody wrote: | | But the Minas Tirith stone was corrupted by Sauron, so whatever Denethor saw ... |
Did I say this had anything to do with Denethor?
Rhapsody! You see right through me ... |
Heh, all I can say Nancy: I am curious what plotbunny has been following you! Will you let us know for which story you're going to use it? 
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NancyBrooke
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 11:50 am Post subject: |
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Nope.
(not that it really matters; I'm sure two authors could approach the same question from two very different directions.)
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Rhapsody
Joined: 11 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| NancyBrooke wrote: | Nope.
(not that it really matters; I'm sure two authors could approach the same question from two very different directions.) |
Or not Nancy, go for it girl!
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Nazgul #5 in charge anything liquid or edible things
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Cressida
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
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Location: Illinois, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with those who say the Stones can see the past but not the future.
UT also says that Denethor must have been able to use the stone at times without Sauron's interference. It would have been some time before Sauron discovered that the was starting to use the Stone, and also Sauron wasn't able to monitor his own Stone 24/7. So even during the Ring War, I think Denethor must have sometimes been able to make the stone work normally. This may have thrown him even more off-balance. |
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NancyBrooke
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:25 am Post subject: |
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Ve-e-e-ry interesting! Thanks for that thought provoking tidbit, C.
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Nazgul #3 in charge of ducking & sniggering
Garo golf a conu ned i eneth aran an ir ho delitha ad |
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