[Roisin]

OK, one of the criticisms that Sindohte and I got for this story http://www.openscrolls.net/fanfic/story.php?no=187 was that we had Legolas making a formal greeting in Quenya instead of Sindarin.

Now I was thinking that Quenya was sort of like Latin and would be used for a formal greeting by an educated Elf, particularly a prince, but I could certainly be wrong about that. Any thoughts?

Roisin

[Thuriniel]

If I recall correctly, Quenya is supposed to be spoken only by the Noldor. The use of Quenya was shunned after the Noldor commited genocide, so afterwards the Noldor would only speak it amongst them. If you can find a Sil expert (which I am not ), they should be able to explain the situation a little better.

As for Legolas speaking Quenya ... well, Quenya was shunned, but it was still used for wedding ceremonies, for example. So I wonder if it could be used as well for other types of formal address. In my personal opinion, I think I would just use Sindarin. It's very probable that Legolas spoke Silvan (which is a mutation of Sindarin), so Sindarin would have been a more formal choice for him after all.

Hope this helps ... sort of,

Maria

[Viv]

Legolas is a weird elf to use Quenya: He's of Sindarin descent but identifies himself as a Silvan elf. Quenya is most closely associated with the Noldorin elves. So, even if Lego knows Quenya, he probably would feel silly using it. It'd be kind of like a Texan learning Mandarin Chinese for fun and then using it in conversation just to sound learned.

Also keep in mind that the "kingship" in Greenwood was very different from the sort of pretentious royalty of the Noldorin elves.

[Elentari]

[Andreth]

Thoughts, but no debate, sorry. I have to agree. I'm even of the opinion that Legolas didn't go by the term prince because he was keeping to the Silvan beliefs of not having kings or princes. Something that obviously didn't bother his dad or his grandfather, though.

But as far as Quenya, Elu Thingol banned Quenya as a spoken tongue when he found out about the Kinslaying and what the Noldor had done. It was still spoken in a few realms, like Gondolin, but for the most part Sindarin was spoken. Legolas's grandfather, Oropher came from Doriath (and possibly Thranduil as well) because he wanted to get away from the Sindar who were mingling with the Noldor. Like Thingol, he intensely disliked these 'Noldorinized' Sindar. So I find it very hard to believe that Quenya would have been spoken in any form in Oropher and Thranduil's realm. Legolas didn't even recognize the variation of Sindarin that Haldir spoke when they arrived at Lothlorien.

People used Quenya as a formal language on Numenor for naming places and people, but even there it wasn't a spoken tongue - it was a scholar's tongue, which is what it was in Middle-earth as well. Galadriel spoke it, but that was the language she used when she lived in Aman.

Anyway, more than enough rambling on from me. If you wanted to get nitpicky, then no, I don't think Legolas would have used Quenya, even on a ceremonial basis. Sorry.

[BittenBuggy]

I have nothing to add, because I think everyone so far has been correct. Just wanted to say wow Andreth, nice avatar. It says "Círdan" to me, or at least that's who it looks like

[Roisin]

Hmm, I see the point. I definitely need to read the Silm...I know various individual characters and stories, but not so much how it all fits together.

We have some other small things to fix too, so we'll probably go back and do it all at one time.

Roisin

[Andreth]

[BittenBuggy]

Oooh... Thingol, definitely...

Now I've had my dose of beautiful male specimens And now we know why Melian liked him so much

[Elentari]

Sorry to bother everyone about this. If there is anyone out there who has any inkling of quenya, I'd like some help with the following dialogues.
(noldor talking among themselves, clearly not wishing a third elf to understand what they were talking about. I guess you could say go for the telepathy thing, but for this the foreign language works best.)

“Quíta undulávies len lúcenen, an alaméralye leryas,”
that was Glorfindel speaking, it was meant to mean: Maybe down-licked-she you spell-with, for not-are-wanting release-her
maybe she cast a spell on you, for you don't want to release her.

“Varyanyele. Mal leryuvanyes calyanen.” - and this I am really insecure about.
Protect-I-you. But release-will-I-her command-your-by.
I am protecting you, but I'll release her by your command.

I know this is not very usual, but if you could help me with this, I'd be eternally thankful.