[Cressida]

The thing about UT is that it contains a lot of "afterthoughts" on Tolkien's part, which is why not everyone considers it completely canonical. For example, in LOTR he clearly leans toward the idea that Denethor didn't start using the palantír until after Finduilas' death, but in UT he plays with the idea that it might have started earlier. (He finally leaves that question open by saying remains a matter of speculation.)

So I don't think it's against canon if you want to say the Nazgûl did not get across the river. Denethor says about the Witch-King in ROTK "It is at Osgiliath that he will put his weight, as before when Boromir denied him the passage" (emphasis mine)

(Are you working on an Osgiliath fic, by the way? *hopes*)

Oh, and I have one further piece of evidence for you about Gondor's lack of cavalry, from "Minas Tirith." Beregond says to Pippin, when they are going to visit Shadowfax, "But come! You shall make me acquainted with this good horse. I love beasts, and we see them seldom in this stony city."

[SpaceWeavil]

See to me though, that doesn't contradict what's in UT, since it says the Witch King 'revealed himself' as the Nazgul crossed the river, which would imply he didn't go with them, and so was held back. But then I do consider UT to be canon where there is no contradiction. (that is, the one or two chapters where there aren't 25 gazillion different versions... ) To be honest, I'm sometimes more inclined to go with UT than HoME in many cases simply because it is an 'afterthought' rather than a bit of planning that was subsequently abandoned (as much of HoME is). Still, it's up to each writer to decide how much they want to base on the Professor's ideas, and everyone has their opinion on how much weight to give the texts. But UT is a wonderful source of bunnies nonetheless.

I just thought I'd offer that passage from UT since the question was asked. Whether anyone decides to go with that or to make something else up is down to artistic licence. Personally though I actually like the UT version of the Nazgul coming across - think not only does it work in very easily with the rest of the story, i.e. their searching for the ring, but I think it'd make for a very dramatic visual for the reader. Sort of reminds me of the Battle of Langport in 1645, with Cromwell's cavalry tearing through the burning high street.

Whatever you come up with Nancy, I'm really looking forward to reading this

[NancyBrooke]

[Cressida]

I waver back and forth on how much weight to give to UT. I sometimes think Tolkien's afterthoughts weren't as good as his original ideas--the way he kept rewriting Galadriel's history, for example. But then, sometimes I like the afterthoughts better--like the idea that the Prince of Dol Amroth was given that title by Elendil (it makes so much sense politically), rather than during the tail end of the days of the Kings. And some parts of UT ring more true to me than others: for example, I consider the essay "The Palantíri" to be as nearly canonical as anything that isn't actually contained in LOTR, due to the history of its writing.

I sometimes try to make everything work as long as it doesn't actively contradict, but that brings its own set of headaches. So I keep swinging back and forth, as I said above. I think right now I'm in a "You don't have to go by UT" phase. Next week I'll probably insist on using it all the time.

(Everything I've said above applies equally to HoME.)

[NeumeIndil]

Delurking long enough to say thanks for the Gondor's cavalry references and the bit about why Imrahil was there. It reinforces a move I made that I wasn't so sure of.

Thanks again.

Ya'll rock,
Neu