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NancyBrooke Challenge Admin
Joined: 11 May 2003 Posts: 160 Location: In a motel 6 by the airport
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Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:37 am Post subject: Joust terminology |
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If you're watching a joust where are you sitting? If you're out of the action, where are you standing?
I'm thinking "sidelines" is a bit achronistic for Tolkien (I know, I am the champion nit picker. I split hairs pretty well too, and enlarging molehills is my specialty (though I don't do tempests).
Any ideas, let me know. _________________ NB Duchess of WHY TF Cant'chu Punctuate, First Duchess of F*&(ing &*ll yur comma placement sux!
Nazgul #3 in charge of ducking & sniggering
Garo golf a conu ned i eneth aran an ir ho delitha ad |
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Rhapsody

Joined: 11 Apr 2004 Posts: 1153 Location: Maglor's Lap
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Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: Joust terminology |
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| NancyBrooke wrote: | | If you're watching a joust where are you sitting? If you're out of the action, where are you standing? |
I think that depends on your social status... if you are of (high) nobilty, I think you would be sitting on the platform/tribune, if you are a peasant you would be standing elswhere around the jousting field...
Just my 2 eurocents... |
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Robbie Site Admin

Joined: 22 Jun 2003 Posts: 1100 Location: Sydney, Australia.
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Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Joust terminology |
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| NancyBrooke wrote: | | If you're watching a joust where are you sitting? | On yer bum | NancyBrooke wrote: | | If you're out of the action, where are you standing? | On yer feet.
| NancyBrooke wrote: | | I split hairs pretty well too | I win  _________________ Rob
www.crackingegg.com |
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NeumeIndil

Joined: 06 Jun 2005 Posts: 1084 Location: St. Louis, Missouri, USA
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Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:23 am Post subject: |
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It's not much, but you might go here for starters: http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=tappan&book=bold&story=jousts
The description is decent, though designed for a child's reading level, so it doesn't get technical. It does mention a fenced off area at either side of the lists, so perhaps "sidelines" is the old term. I don't know the etymology of it, but stranger things have happened.
You might also try: The Tournament in England by Juliet Barker. ISBN: 0851159427
and
Tournaments: Jousts, Chivalry and Pageants in the Middle Ages by Richard Barber and Juliet Barker . ISBN: 0851157815
Not sure where I got it while I was working on my thesis, but the latter seemed pretty thorough.
And just for the heck of it, a glossary of knighthood and tournament terms: http://www.chronique.com/Library/Glossaries/glossary-KCT/glssindx.htm
Hope something helps,
Neu _________________ An Infinite Source of Pervy Wisdom. |
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NancyBrooke Challenge Admin
Joined: 11 May 2003 Posts: 160 Location: In a motel 6 by the airport
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Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Joust terminology |
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| Robbie wrote: | | NancyBrooke wrote: | | If you're watching a joust where are you sitting? | On yer bum | NancyBrooke wrote: | | If you're out of the action, where are you standing? | On yer feet.
| NancyBrooke wrote: | | I split hairs pretty well too | I win  |
I give  _________________ NB Duchess of WHY TF Cant'chu Punctuate, First Duchess of F*&(ing &*ll yur comma placement sux!
Nazgul #3 in charge of ducking & sniggering
Garo golf a conu ned i eneth aran an ir ho delitha ad |
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NeumeIndil

Joined: 06 Jun 2005 Posts: 1084 Location: St. Louis, Missouri, USA
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Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:56 am Post subject: |
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I went to the library this morning and happened to find the Barber/Barker book.
From the Glossary:
berfrois- a grandstand, usually a temporary structure made of wood, built alongside the lists to enable spectators to view the hastiludes (spear games). Usually reserved for the ladies but nobles, prominent citizens and visiting dignitaries were also allowed a seat. Also known as the escafaut or scaffold.
recet: a designated place of refuge on the tournament field where knights could rest, rearm or hold prisoners/booty. (Possibly where the squires and such waited?)
Under "joust" it says "Until the mid fifteenth century several jousters could be found in the lists (contest area) at one time, but only one combat took place at once..." So you could conceivably let the guys "in the bull pen" hang out around the edges of the list. The ends of the lists where combatants began were called stations.
There's a great illustration on the inside of the jacket that I'd be happy to scan for you if you'd like it.
Hope that helps,
Neu _________________ An Infinite Source of Pervy Wisdom. |
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NancyBrooke Challenge Admin
Joined: 11 May 2003 Posts: 160 Location: In a motel 6 by the airport
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Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| NeumeIndil wrote: | I went to the library this morning and happened to find the Barber/Barker book.
From the Glossary:
berfrois- a grandstand, usually a temporary structure made of wood, built alongside the lists to enable spectators to view the hastiludes (spear games). Usually reserved for the ladies but nobles, prominent citizens and visiting dignitaries were also allowed a seat. Also known as the escafaut or scaffold. |
Berfrois seems absolutely what I was looking for ... I'm uncomfortable that it's so clearly french, though: can't imagine it coming out of a Gondorian mouth!
I love 'Hastiludes,' though - it sounds like hostile attitudes; nice also that 'berfrois' has that component of 'cold' in it, and that it's mostly for the ladies - what manly man wants to be seen hanging out there when there's fightin' goin' on!
Gallery might do; it's got an awfully broad definition though
Picky, Picky, Picky ...
Thanks to all for your help. If there are any other ideas, keep 'em coming - the right word must be out there somewhere! _________________ NB Duchess of WHY TF Cant'chu Punctuate, First Duchess of F*&(ing &*ll yur comma placement sux!
Nazgul #3 in charge of ducking & sniggering
Garo golf a conu ned i eneth aran an ir ho delitha ad |
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NeumeIndil

Joined: 06 Jun 2005 Posts: 1084 Location: St. Louis, Missouri, USA
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Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 5:26 pm Post subject: Keep 'em comin'? Okay. |
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I wondered about the too French part too. So then I thought, what about translating it into neo-Sindarin or neo-Quenya? (Can you tell I've got writer's block? )
Berfrois wasn't in the etymology dictionary I checked, but "scaffold" was. It's attributed to chaffaut and "probably eschace, from prop or support" to become eschafaut. So it's, roughly, a supporting scaffold or supporting structure.
There is also the word "catafalque": 1641, from Fr. catafalque, from It. catafalco "scaffold," from V.L. *catafalicum, from Gk. kata- "down," (used in M.L. with a sense of "beside, alongside") and fala "scaffolding." So roughly "nearby scaffolding".
A third option is working out something from the function unrelated to the original term. Since it was the place where the Queen of Love or Queen of Beauty judged the joust, you could try something like "The Queen's Place" or "The Queen's Box" (though that last could have some unintended connotations ). Perhaps also "Place of Watching" or "Place of the Queen". There's an entry in the Ardalambion Quenya Wordlist for "base structure": sundo carme, which might work just as it is. Or since the structure was set up in levels or (in the case of small jousts) built near a hill, you could try "Hill/Bank of Watching", "Hill/Bank of Judging", or "The Queen's Hill/Bank". I'm sure one of our resident language gurus can help with that part. My Elvish skills are next to zilch.
I'm really gonna go write Gamling smut now, I swear, but the next time my muses head for the high ground I'll see how the glossary and inner flap of the book scan. If they turn out legibly I'll email or PM.
Okay, back to horny Horse Lords.
Neu _________________ An Infinite Source of Pervy Wisdom. |
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