[Panneth]

[Viv]

[Panneth]

I know that there are no Tolkien Sindarin phrases for "please", "yes", "no", "I love you"... that sort of thing otherwise I would use them! So when I come across something that pretends to translate to that, I cringe. Even with the phases "Le Hannon" or "Hannon le" for thank you appearing in the films with elvish done by experts, other phrases are popping up in fics all over the shop.

Incidentally, there are two different thoughts about pronouns which is why I use "le hannon" but in the film it's "hannon le". At least there was when I last looked at anything relating to Sindarin. I just tend to dabble with the odd phrases here and there.

I don't know anything about Quenya, but yes it does annoy me when people will use Quenya words when their elves speak Sindarin because they can't think of a way to rephrase the sentence to get around the problems of the limited number of Sindarin words.

If anyone is thinking of getting a good dictionary by the way, I recommend downloading DragonFlame. It's pretty much complete. You get a Sindarin-English dictionary, a selected part of the Sindarin Corpus (the known pieces in Sindarin) and a small Neo-Sindarin-English dictionary with words reconstructed from Quenya via the same ways Tolkien used to evolve the Sindarin language. I've not got the URL, but just Google it and it'll be there, probably .

Emma who has had to edit this so many times she wonders if her English skills are any better than her Sindarin ones!

[sindohte]

A few weeks ago I was at my local Borders bookstore and they had their obligatory LOTR collection of books. I picked up an illustrated Tolkien encyclopedia which was nice, but I also picked up a real gem The Languages of Tolkien's Middle-Earth by Ruth S. Noel. On the front cover, the book makes the following claims - "contains a dictionary of all non-English words; an English/Elvish gloassry; rules of grammar and pronunciation; translations; and how to write Elvish and other alphabets and runes."

It looks like an awesome little book and I have skimmed through, but unfortunately I have not gotten around to reading it yet. However it looks to be quite comprehensive.

[Thuriniel]

[sindohte]

[Panneth]

There's something else that I always cringe when I read and that is Sindarin words that are not pluralised properly. For example, the plural of elleth (she-elf) is not elleths, it's elliths. There are loads of rules for mutations and pluralisation are about the easiest ones to follow! Please people!

I heard a rumour a long time back that David Salo (the guy who did all the stuff for the films) would be writing a book, but I've not heard anything about it since. That book would probably be up to date with the current Tolkien theory. It keeps changing as different people work on it and they unearth new boxes of Tolkien's work in the dark depths of the library in Oxford!

[Hathor]

... and this is why I never, ever use Elvish.

The closest I get it for when I'm making up Elvish names. I just... don't understand this kind of language. The usages of the English language yes - I have fancy qualifications that say that "Hey! This girl knows what para-linguistic features are! Go on, ask her about the evolution of the English language!" But that's as far as it gets. I've been reading over this thread and thinking 'guh?'

Only people who can use a language SHOULD use a language. I can't speak French, so I don't use it. I can't use Elvish, so I don't. Why does no one else seem to get this as they happily mangle a beauitful language? </soapbox>

[NancyBrooke]

[NancyBrooke]

So, okay ... I guess the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

So I'll ante up.

Here's my signature, the Steward's Oath translated into Sindarin (with one or two made up words and a lot of funky word order):

To hold rod and rule in the name of the king, until he shall return.
Garo golf a conu ned i eneth aran an ir ho delitha ad
(To hold branch and to rule in the king’s name for when he will come again)

I made up 'conu' because I couldn't find a word for 'to rule;' it's based on 'caun' = ruler.

And here's the rhyme of Lore that Gandalf teaches Pippin about the Numenoreans:

Tall ships and Tall kings
Cir dynd ah erain dynd
(Ships tall and kings tall)

Three times three
Neled na neled
(Three by three)

What brought they from the foundered land
Man tyngir o ndōr vi nen dhannen
(What brought-they from the land forsaken)

Over the flowing sea?
Athra aearon hiriol?
(Over (the) sea flowing?)

Seven stars and seven stones
Geil odog a sairn odog
(stars seven and stones seven)

And one white tree
A galadh-‘loss min
(And one tree white)


If anyone wants to use them in fic please feel free; credit would be appreciated.
More to come (!?)

[Thuriniel]

[Panneth]

Whoops how embarrassing!

We were going to do all of Nimrodel at one stage weren't we? When did I have that much free time?

[Thuriniel]

[Panneth]

[Thuriniel]