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NeumeIndil
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 1084
Location: St. Louis, Missouri, USA
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 Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| NancyBrooke wrote: |  |
Precisely. It's insulting to gays too, in a way, to assume that someone's always going to be a whiny 'bitch' and someone's always going to be a sadistic 'butch' in a m/m relationship.
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lissaselves
Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Posts: 31
Location: Right here!
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| Haleth wrote: | | If I was stuck in the lost in the middle of the forest I'd prefer book Haldir for company over movie Haldir. Book Haldir was far friendlier. |
He certainly was, and kind to the Hobbits; very open and ... well, talkative. That's the Haldir I want to read about.
PJ has a lot to answer for; don't see why they changed the script like that. Rather pointless. |
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lissaselves
Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:31 am Post subject: |
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[quote="NancyBrooke"] | NeumeIndil wrote: | Fanon, like that which has grown up about Haldir (and Legolas for that matter), just brings out the worst, IMHO, in fanfiction: rampant teenage fangirl foaming-at-the-keyboard fic where the fantasy fulfillment vastly overpowers the writing fulfillment (if there is any).
Harummmphhh.  |
It's annoying when everything the character stands for is thrown to the wind and - if this is pointed out - the writer merely claims to write AU! No they don't; they write nonsense.
Personally, I don't really object to writing Haldir as gay since Tolkien really gave us very little to go on about this subject. But the 'haughty' Haldir, the cruel Marchwarden ...  Just don't get it: call him something else, 'cause this is not Haldir!
And I agree with what NeumeIndil said about many of those stories being insulting to gays; generally, straight women probably aren't that knowledgeable about how two men would make a relationship work (but I'm guessing it would have to differ quite a lot from the way woman-man relationships works - definitely less talk about emotions and 'you never listen to what I say' ...  ).
Well, enough for now, I've got to get ready for work.  |
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Alassante
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 20
Location: Hitchhiking to Rivendell
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| eiranae wrote: | This question actually reminds me of one I saw on another site which questioned why more females write fanfic compared to males. I guess we all want our perfect elf, man, dwarf  . |
Because unlike real life, we can edit out the stupid flaws and they always say the right thing.  Or even if its the wrong thing, they make up for it. And if they still are bad, you can kill them off without going to jail for it
I agree that the things about slash that bothers me most are when they turn one partner into a wimp and the other into the 'protector' of the wimp. I cannot read stories that do that. The whole MPRG thing is just flat out WEIRD. And incest slash is the pits. Making Elladan/Elrohir, Thranduil/Legolas, or Rumil/Orophin/Haldir romantic partners is just wrong.
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Viv
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Joined: 24 Apr 2003
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Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| NeumeIndil wrote: | | But where people get off turning one or the other of Middle-earth's strongest warriors into weepy, moony pseudo-women |
You know, this happens in het fic, too. I've read whoa lots of stories that have Lego weeping with lurve-tears over some violet-eyed half-elf. Any OOC has to offend a purist. But on the other hand, I did confess in another thread that I read bodice-ripper romances, so if I can move beyond the fact that "Nooooo that ain't the Faramir I know! It's just some dude who happens to have the name and wear leather" it's all quite palatable. After all, I've done my share of character assasination. |
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NancyBrooke
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Joined: 11 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| lisser8 wrote: | | the writer merely claims to write AU! No they don't; they write nonsense. |
Oh, I like her. I really like her.
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eiranae
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| Viv wrote: | | You know, this happens in het fic, too. I've read whoa lots of stories that have Lego weeping with lurve-tears over some violet-eyed half-elf. Any OOC has to offend a purist. But on the other hand, I did confess in another thread that I read bodice-ripper romances, so if I can move beyond the fact that "Nooooo that ain't the Faramir I know! It's just some dude who happens to have the name and wear leather" it's all quite palatable. After all, I've done my share of character assasination. |
I guess I'm one of the purists. I don't mind reading romantic fics if it is actually plausible within canon, but I just don't see where Legolas or Haldir or any elf for that matter would fall for a human ten minutes after they meet and shag her fifteen minutes after that. That's just not the way elves are according to Tolkien. I guess my wish fulfillment comes with the males NOT acting like human males.
I can understand deviation from canon if it is explained well and not just prefaced with "well, my elves don't act like elves." Then why not just write about men? I guess I like things to make sense in their original setting. I'm this way with Harry Potter stories and any genre in fact.
Okay, that was quite a rant. I'll shut up now. 
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Alassante
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| NancyBrooke wrote: | | lisser8 wrote: | | the writer merely claims to write AU! No they don't; they write nonsense. |
Oh, I like her. I really like her. |
Lissa is a keeper for sure 
My WIP is very AU and I follow canon for most things. And I have followed LaCE for the first time in my writing. lol
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Viv
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| eiranae wrote: | | I just don't see where Legolas or Haldir or any elf for that matter would fall for a human ten minutes after they meet and shag her fifteen minutes after that. |
Eep. I wrote that story.
Granted, the twenty or so chapters after that, the characters spent dealing with all the various repercussions of such an odd thing. |
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eiranae
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Viv wrote: | | eiranae wrote: | | I just don't see where Legolas or Haldir or any elf for that matter would fall for a human ten minutes after they meet and shag her fifteen minutes after that. |
Eep. I wrote that story.
Granted, the twenty or so chapters after that, the characters spent dealing with all the various repercussions of such an odd thing. |
I must not have read that one, Viv. But, like you said, you went over the repercussions. I'm not saying that it can't be fun to write or read a story such as that, I guess I just like the romance to have a little more justification. I'm one of those people who likes to have a reason for whatever is happening.
Of course the downside of that is my characters probably come off as unrealistic, especially my male characters. I always have them doing things most normal hot-blooded males would never dream of doing. Even my Mom said my guy characters are way too girly.  
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Viv
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Joined: 24 Apr 2003
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Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| eiranae wrote: | | I must not have read that one, Viv. |
I took it down. It's early and rough, but even with all its flaws, I love it too much to have it savaged by anti-OFC militias. (Not that it doesn't deserve to be called a Sue -- it does.) All of my stories since then sit a little way away from my soul, so that I can look at them with a critical eye and be okay with it.
I wonder if other writers feel so personally invested with *all* their stories... |
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eiranae
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Location: Just to the left of barmy.
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Viv wrote: | | eiranae wrote: | | I must not have read that one, Viv. |
I took it down. It's early and rough, but even with all its flaws, I love it too much to have it savaged by anti-OFC militias. (Not that it doesn't deserve to be called a Sue -- it does.) All of my stories since then sit a little way away from my soul, so that I can look at them with a critical eye and be okay with it.
I wonder if other writers feel so personally invested with *all* their stories... |
I did with my first Harry Potter story. It really hurt to hear anything negative about that story. I put so much of myself into it. In fact, I would get mad when my hubby wouldn't understand why I had written a particular chapter the way I did. I felt like saying, "Don't you know me!"
 Maybe I should take that one down?
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'I wish life was not so short,' he thought. 'Languages take such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about.'
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Alassante
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
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Location: Hitchhiking to Rivendell
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Viv wrote: | | eiranae wrote: | | I must not have read that one, Viv. |
I took it down. It's early and rough, but even with all its flaws, I love it too much to have it savaged by anti-OFC militias. (Not that it doesn't deserve to be called a Sue -- it does.) All of my stories since then sit a little way away from my soul, so that I can look at them with a critical eye and be okay with it.
I wonder if other writers feel so personally invested with *all* their stories... |
Hey that story was good Viv! I just went and looked to see which one was gone. I remember which one it was. The Legolas romance and all.
If you haven't read her Mary Sue paraody story its a must read
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eiranae
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Joined: 21 Mar 2006
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Location: Just to the left of barmy.
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Alassante wrote: |
Hey that story was good Viv! I just went and looked to see which one was gone. I remember which one it was. The Legolas romance and all.
If you haven't read her Mary Sue paraody story its a must read |
Okay, now you've got me curious! I'd love to read the story, Viv. I wish you hadn't taken it down.
My first attempt at a story was a Haldir fic, ask Sulriel. The whole idea was pretty wretched. I'm sure yours is much better than anything I've written.
Now I'm going to run off and find the Mary Sue parody. 
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'I wish life was not so short,' he thought. 'Languages take such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about.'
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lissaselves
Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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I'm getting a liiiiiitle worried here - what's all that talk about taking stories down??
Certainly don't hope it's got anything to do with my ranting!
And I'm getting curious about that story, Viv: 'dealing with the repercussions' sounds interesting, to say the least. A hint?
(You may have realized that although I prefer my Haldir straight and on the borders, I'll read him any way I can get him  ) |
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