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dolarabee
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Joined: 21 Apr 2003
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Location: Sydney, Australia
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 Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| Haleth wrote: | | It's ridiculous, but I can easily see it happening. People can get a little emotional. |
Exactly.
But we might just set one up like the Virtual Village. That way it'll be more like a writing group and locked behind registration so that anything posted there won't be considered 'published'... that is, if that concept is even right.
Who mentioned that? Are we sure that a story posted on the web into a password locked group isn't considered published?
do.
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Je sais de la vie qu'elle se termine souvent au lit,
Et que d'autres ont bien plus de chance trépassent de rire ou de jouissance,
Mais pire que la mort qui vient c'est l'amour qui ne vient jamais.
~ Daniel Bélanger |
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Sulriel
Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Posts: 286
Location: Imladris (or maybe Texas ...)
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| dolarabee wrote: | | Haleth wrote: | | It's ridiculous, but I can easily see it happening. People can get a little emotional. |
Exactly.
But we might just set one up like the Virtual Village. That way it'll be more like a writing group and locked behind registration so that anything posted there won't be considered 'published'... that is, if that concept is even right.
Who mentioned that? Are we sure that a story posted on the web into a password locked group isn't considered published?
do. |
Hi Do.
The 'rule of thumb' is that if it's posted in a members-only workshop for critique, it isn't considered "published".
I'm on the road this weekend, but will look around for some references and/or documentation next week.
The thing is, it's something that can vary by publisher. It's not a hard and fast rule since internet publishing has become so popular, it's turned into a grey area.
You can look at the FAQs at Critters.org, I'm sure this is addressed there. Also in the Baen's Forums. There might be something in the SFWA (?) guidelines.
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dolarabee
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Thank you, Sulriel. Will do.
do.
_________________
Je sais de la vie qu'elle se termine souvent au lit,
Et que d'autres ont bien plus de chance trépassent de rire ou de jouissance,
Mais pire que la mort qui vient c'est l'amour qui ne vient jamais.
~ Daniel Bélanger |
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Sulriel
Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Posts: 286
Location: Imladris (or maybe Texas ...)
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:49 am Post subject: |
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found this information here:
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http://www.critters.org/faq.ht#Q25
Is sending through the group considered publication?
In a word: No. Editors recognize the utility of critique groups and that many authors belong to them. Being seen by a restricted set of other authors is not publication ("publication" means available to anyone, i.e., "the public"). Besides, you'll almost certainly change the story after workshoppers see it, so what you submit to an editor is different than the group saw. Lastly, consider that Critters was recommended in Asimov's, and the venerable old Omni, one of the highest paying F&SF markets of its time, had workshops listed on their page of links, and the fiction editor, Ellen Datlow invited this very group to be an "official Omni workshop", so I think it's safe to conclude that at least one influential editor has no problems with critique groups.
If you're really concerned about it, mention in a cover letter that the story was sent through Critters. Chances are that will do more to enhance Critters reputation than anything else, but I doubt it hurts anyone. 
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I think that the sticky difference you might run into here is the difference between an archive and a workshop.
honestly, the 'problem' is that publishers don't want to pay for and then try to sell something that 'everyone' has already read for free. (or that readers could google and find online in an archive or even in google histories or archives such as the wayback machine and read for free) I suspect that OSA (no offense!!) is small enough, and the members close enough, that a rally of support (buying books) would be an asset to an author who came up from here rather than a "nah, I've already read it". But that's getting into grey areas and assumptions and it's easier and cleaner to say: "It was posted in a members-only, password required critique forum/workshop" than to try to argue the differences between free membership to an archive that encourages critique.
I have a couple of thoughts.
1) go ahead and offer the original archive, post a disclaimer the author has to sign/click and leave it on the author's back (where it should be anyway.
2) same as one, but put it behind a second password like the VV
3) go ahead and make it a published venue. (removes the 'is it published question') There are lots and lots and lots of e-zines and web archives out there.
3a) free for all
3b) requires a donation to OSA to get in. Authors donate the work for exposure and to help bring in donations to the archive
3c) allow the author to put a paypal button on at the end of the story for readers to pay what they think the story is worth (this is pretty common with the free-zines)
3d) combination of b and c
it seems like critters used to have an associated archive which offered a percent of the story for free (first few chapters) and then you had to pay (paypal button) to read the rest, but I can't find it and I suspect that would require some major programing stuff to get set up.
....and I'm out of coffee and ideas.
(I know this has been discussed at length on the Baen forums, but my 'remember password' thingie is apparently messed up)
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Sulriel
Joined: 06 Jan 2004
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Location: Imladris (or maybe Texas ...)
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:00 am Post subject: |
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argh. coffee has kicked in.
1) and 2) would work better as critque forums or workshops, otherwise, it's just 3) under a funny name.
The thing is, web-published *is* published. It's just that people tend not to think about it that way if they don't get paid for it.
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dolarabee
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Joined: 21 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Wow! Thanks. The Programmer Guy and I need to sit down and have a think on this.
do.
_________________
Je sais de la vie qu'elle se termine souvent au lit,
Et que d'autres ont bien plus de chance trépassent de rire ou de jouissance,
Mais pire que la mort qui vient c'est l'amour qui ne vient jamais.
~ Daniel Bélanger |
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Sulriel
Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Posts: 286
Location: Imladris (or maybe Texas ...)
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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no problem. I'm far from the last word on the topic, but hopefully, any of that makes enough sense to be helpful for your decision.
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