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Leilana
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
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 Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:58 am Post subject: PEF or PMF? Which is better? |
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ok...I've been wondering this for a while. Why did Tolkien only match up (a few) female elves with human men? Why not male elves and human women? Is there some defect we don't know about that would persuade some of the most beautiful female elves to choose mortal men over male elves? Is there something wrong with male elves...or just something right with men??? Hmmmmmmm....  |
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Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 665
Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:06 am Post subject: |
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I've always thought of this as odd (as I recall there is only one case of an ellon choosing a human female) ... my only thought on it is the following: male ego ... as in "we can take their women ... but don't even think about touching ours."
OK, so this is not very helpful, but I wonder if there's some truth to it.
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BittenBuggy
Joined: 27 Dec 2003
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Location: Busy Being the Queen Of Everything.. And Trying to Catch the Yoda-Copter
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:07 am Post subject: |
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Ah, yes I have a theory on that, because I've thought about it too.
Think of it this way... TOLKIEN WAS A MAN. Therefore, men could get old and ugly, while their spouses stayed young and supple and beautiful. It's just your basic man-mentality... thats all. He didn't want to work it the other way because then a beautiful man would be stuck with a saggy old hag. 
No matter how great the author, he is still driven by the faults of his sex.
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Maram68
Challenge Admin
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 535
Location: West from East
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| BittenBuggy wrote: | Ah, yes I have a theory on that, because I've thought about it too.
Think of it this way... TOLKIEN WAS A MAN. Therefore, men could get old and ugly, while their spouses stayed young and supple and beautiful. It's just your basic man-mentality... thats all. He didn't want to work it the other way because then a beautiful man would be stuck with a saggy old hag.
No matter how great the author, he is still driven by the faults of his sex. |
Therefore OUR existence is justified, since WE write about beautiful elves submitting to mortal women ....
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Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 665
Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:09 am Post subject: |
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So very well put, BB ... I totally agree with you. It's OK for an older man to have a young, gorgeous woman ... but the moment an older woman hooks up with a young, gorgeous man it's all wrong and it's the source of many jokes ... even if the older woman looks as stunning as Demi Moore!
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~ everyone should speak a second language ~ |
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BittenBuggy
Joined: 27 Dec 2003
Posts: 2108
Location: Busy Being the Queen Of Everything.. And Trying to Catch the Yoda-Copter
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| Maram68 wrote: | | BittenBuggy wrote: | Ah, yes I have a theory on that, because I've thought about it too.
Think of it this way... TOLKIEN WAS A MAN. Therefore, men could get old and ugly, while their spouses stayed young and supple and beautiful. It's just your basic man-mentality... thats all. He didn't want to work it the other way because then a beautiful man would be stuck with a saggy old hag.
No matter how great the author, he is still driven by the faults of his sex. |
Therefore OUR existence is justified, since WE write about beautiful elves submitting to mortal women ....
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Bullseye Claudia, though its sad to think we are no better than men 
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-The Queen of Everything - so dubed by Aerin
-"My ultimate fantasy is to entice a man to my bedroom, put a gun to his head and say, 'Make babies or die'."
-"The Pope! how many divisions has he got?" - Stalin |
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Moralanqua
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 1051
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:12 am Post subject: |
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Let us not forget what a dumbass Aegnor was for not giving his poor mortal Andreth some hot luvvin before he went off to die!!
It wouldnt have killed him to slip her some elf *wink wink, nudge nudge* since he knew he wouldnt out live her by much anyway!!
Male elves are so ostinate! Cant see past their own noses - or spears! 
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BittenBuggy
Joined: 27 Dec 2003
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Location: Busy Being the Queen Of Everything.. And Trying to Catch the Yoda-Copter
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:14 am Post subject: |
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Ahem... spears.... Yes well, that would mean that some of them can see pretty far... 
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-The Queen of Everything - so dubed by Aerin
-"My ultimate fantasy is to entice a man to my bedroom, put a gun to his head and say, 'Make babies or die'."
-"The Pope! how many divisions has he got?" - Stalin |
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Moralanqua
Joined: 11 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:15 am Post subject: |
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LMAO! 
You are beyond help!
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BittenBuggy
Joined: 27 Dec 2003
Posts: 2108
Location: Busy Being the Queen Of Everything.. And Trying to Catch the Yoda-Copter
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:20 am Post subject: |
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I know...it's how I entertain myself when Fingon is napping. I made him the cutest little pallet on the floor, oh he's just adorable with those iron chains *Sigh*
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-The Queen of Everything - so dubed by Aerin
-"My ultimate fantasy is to entice a man to my bedroom, put a gun to his head and say, 'Make babies or die'."
-"The Pope! how many divisions has he got?" - Stalin |
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Leilana
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 116
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| ladies...did I open a can of worms??? It seems there is elf AND man bashing...! I agree on the whole old woman and young man stigma... why does an old man get some young piece of fun and old(er) women can't??? Although Tolkien seemed to like the elf woman and man combo... I noticed the most common pairing along those lines here on OCA is woman and male elf ... hmmmm anything to that...? |
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BittenBuggy
Joined: 27 Dec 2003
Posts: 2108
Location: Busy Being the Queen Of Everything.. And Trying to Catch the Yoda-Copter
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, we women like to hump the pretty elves!!
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-The Queen of Everything - so dubed by Aerin
-"My ultimate fantasy is to entice a man to my bedroom, put a gun to his head and say, 'Make babies or die'."
-"The Pope! how many divisions has he got?" - Stalin |
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Andreth
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 1211
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Leilana wrote: | | ladies...did I open a can of worms??? It seems there is elf AND man bashing...! I agree on the whole old woman and young man stigma... why does an old man get some young piece of fun and old(er) women can't??? Although Tolkien seemed to like the elf woman and man combo... I noticed the most common pairing along those lines here on OCA is woman and male elf ... hmmmm anything to that...? |
I think Tolkien just didn't understand a woman's point of view....at all. One of his letters in the Letters to Tolkien book is to his son Michael (who I think became a priest!) with Tolkien explaining his views on women/men relationships. It was quite frightening, for me anyway. I wonder if I can post it here without copyright problems? It's definitely, umm...enlightening. |
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Viv
Challenge Admin
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 71
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: PEF or PMF? Which is better? |
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| Leilana wrote: | | ok...I've been wondering this for a while. Why did Tolkien only match up (a few) female elves with human men? Why not male elves and human women? Is there some defect we don't know about that would persuade some of the most beautiful female elves to choose mortal men over male elves? Is there something wrong with male elves...or just something right with men??? Hmmmmmmm.... |
I think in Tolkien's (odd) universe, procreation between a mortal woman and a male elf would have been slightly more complicated. An elf mother contributes a large part of her own soul to her unborn children (elf fathers do this too, but in a lesser sense), so the mother of an elf child must be able to do this mystical fea-sharing thingy.
A human mother just couldn't make it work. We're all too physical (see raunchier thread for further discussion of human female focus on the physical rather than spiritual interaction with elves ) |
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BittenBuggy
Joined: 27 Dec 2003
Posts: 2108
Location: Busy Being the Queen Of Everything.. And Trying to Catch the Yoda-Copter
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: PEF or PMF? Which is better? |
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| Viv wrote: | | Leilana wrote: | | ok...I've been wondering this for a while. Why did Tolkien only match up (a few) female elves with human men? Why not male elves and human women? Is there some defect we don't know about that would persuade some of the most beautiful female elves to choose mortal men over male elves? Is there something wrong with male elves...or just something right with men??? Hmmmmmmm.... |
I think in Tolkien's (odd) universe, procreation between a mortal woman and a male elf would have been slightly more complicated. An elf mother contributes a large part of her own soul to her unborn children (elf fathers do this too, but in a lesser sense), so the mother of an elf child must be able to do this mystical fea-sharing thingy.
A human mother just couldn't make it work. We're all too physical (see raunchier thread for further discussion of human female focus on the physical rather than spiritual interaction with elves ) |
*Sigh* Why can't I be as eloquant and composed as Viv? Life isn't fair....
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-The Queen of Everything - so dubed by Aerin
-"My ultimate fantasy is to entice a man to my bedroom, put a gun to his head and say, 'Make babies or die'."
-"The Pope! how many divisions has he got?" - Stalin |
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