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Haleth
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 538
Location: The ruins of Tharbad.
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 Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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I've had all day to think about a reply to this. I apologise for the length of it.
| Ellbee wrote: | | I really think a lot of all the sex and marriage stuff that Tolkien wrote is wide open to fannish tweaking, and I’ll tell you why: |
I don't have any problem with fannish tweaking. The only problem I have has actually already been mentioned.
| Ellbee wrote: | | 1) I argue that one does not even have to consider the works that Tolkien didn’t publish as canon at all. Much of it was unfinished, contradictory, and edited by someone other than the author. I don’t necessarily think it’s binding. I like to find out as much about his writing as I can, because it helps color the world of Middle-earth, but I feel free to pick and choose what I consider The Truth. |
There is a great deal of debate on what should and should not be considered canon in Tolkien's works.
The people taking a narrow view of things have to explain away or ignore a lot of contradictions.
The people who pick and chose their canon and who feel free to add or take away aspects of Middle Earth as they see fit run the risk of changing things so much that the place is hardly recognisable.
Most people, I think, are somewhere in between. They can accept a certain number of deviations from canon, but have trouble when there are too many of them.
Loudly voicing an opinion at either extreme have caused any number of unpleasant discussions. More on this later. I'm rambling again.
| Ellbee wrote: | | 2) Tolkien liked to pretend he was writing history rather than fantasy fiction. He writes, "…seldom is any tale told of deeds of lust among them." Well, you know, seldom did I see any mention of sex or rape or adultery in my history books, but you can’t convince me they didn’t happen. |
Um...I beg to disagree. I don't know which books you've read, but history is rife with mentions of sex, rape, adultery and the sexual proclivities of humans. Think of Julius Caesar and Marc Antony and their association with Cleopatra. Think of the Borgias, Lucretia, her brothers and her father, the Pope, who tried to turn the Papacy into a family dynasty. Read about Elanor of Acquitaine or her son, Richard the Lionhearted, or about Heloise and Adelard. Or any of the poetry of Catullus. Or even the Old Testament! There is plenty of mention of sex in human history.
| Ellbee wrote: | | 3) This history is supposedly written by men, and he himself warns against taking man’s ideas about elves as absolute truth. "It must be remembered, however, that it does not necessarily follow that 'True Information' concerning Arda (such as the ancient Eldar might have received from the Valar) must agree with Men's present theories." |
I can't find this paraphrase anywhere within LaCE. Could you please tell me which section it is in?
All that I can find is a note by Christopher Tolkien in the preamble;
"It is clear in any case that is is presented as the work, not of one of the Eldar, but of a Man..." What follows from that is mention of the many names the Eldar use for themselves. There is no mention of the accuracy of the information itself and it must be remember that the LACE was written by Tolkien himself.
Are you refering to the beginning of the paragraph reads?
"It is not easy to say from fictional perspective the Laws and Customs of the Elder was composed."
But it rapidly becomes apparent that the confusion is over to which group of elves the human author, Aelfwine, was referring; the Noldor or the Lingerers (those elves who remained in Middle Earth after the end of the Third Age). Again, there is absolutely no doubt cast upon the veracity information itself.
| Ellbee wrote: | | 4) Too much just absolutely contradicts the puritanical view of elf sex. Laws and Customs says elves wed only once, but what about, who was it, Finwe? |
Finwe's case actually caused a HUGE uproar with the Valar getting involved. The final section of LACE deals with Finwe's case. It states that an elvish marriage may only be dissolved if the dead elf refuses to ever return from Mandos, that only the dead elf can make that decision, and that Namo (Mandos, the Judge) is the only one who can make the pronouncement once he learns the will of the dead. That seems awfully straight forward to me.
| Ellbee wrote: | | And nobody nobody nobody nobody has ever addressed the whole Aredhel/Eol issue. If you take the rape version, well, that completely negates the elves-don’t-rape and elves-die-when-they’re-raped theories |
Eol was probably the most evil elf Tolkien ever created. He was the exception to a lot of things. He used poison on his weapons, which other elves never did. He tried to kill his son, but killed his wife by mistake.
I'm going to have to read the original version of Aredhel/Eol's story before I can try to answer this. (This is already miles long, though I'm willing to bet it's great for insomnia.)
| Ellbee wrote: | | (without even going into what Celebrian likely suffered and lived through.) |
I'll go into it. Tolkien does not explicitly say that she was raped, only that she was tortured. Most of us automatically associate the torture of women with rape, but that is not necessarily the case.
| Ellbee wrote: | | If you go with the other version, the one where Aredhel was “not wholly unwilling” I think that contradicts the sex “canon” even more. Besides the fact that that is creepily close to “she said no, but she really wanted it,” it makes a nonsense of elf sex being some sort of shining, magical, mystical soul-bonding thing, if one of the parties only kinda wants it. It makes sex just sex and marriage just an agreement, and that, ladies, is why I feel writers are free to have elves banging like bunnies. |
I don't see it that way. I see it more as Eol seeing something that he wanted and being charming until he achieved his goal. There are an awful lot of people who can be deceptively charming until they get what they want...or what they think they want. Once their goal is achieved, they show their true colours.
That's my interpretation of the Aredhel being 'not whollly unwilling', though, not Tolkien's. I don't expect people to agree with it as I can't back it up.
As for elves banging like bunnies...I can happily raise my hand and say that I've written stories in that vein, but I'd never claim they were firmly set in Tolkien's universe (or canon). Not only does LACE contradict it, Tolkien never mentioned it. It seems like a rather important oversight on his part. Especially because I read LACE and it fits with the behavior of every elvish couple Tolkien wrote about save one.
| Ellbee wrote: | | Now anyone who wants to write elves as being all pure and above lust and sex and all that, that’s fine, that’s great. What I object to, and I don’t believe anyone here has done it, is the finger waving purists who say, “You shall not write elves thus.” Actually, no one has said it to me, I can’t imagine why not, but lord knows I’ve seen it. What they are actually saying is that they have chosen to ignore certain bits of Tolkieniana that contradicts their interpretation, which is totally and completely their right, I do it myself. But what they have no business doing is insisting that all other writers abide by their interpretation. I don’t think so. |
As I've said above, I don't think they are ignoring examples that seem to contradict the elves as being sexually pure. I just think they interpret them differently.
As for people telling you what you can and can't write and what constitutes a good Tolkien fic...    
It's one of my biggest beef with the fan fiction community and deserving of a post all on it's own...assuming I stay calm enough to write it.
| Ellbee wrote: | I hope this wasn’t too ranty, but I had this stuck in my mind and had to get it ut. If it sounds like I take this all too seriously, nothing could be further from the truth. 
-Ell |
No! Not at all.
I probably sound like I've got a stick up my backside because I take LACE quite literally. I actually don't and I never let this particular opinion keep me from writing elf smut.
I'd never tell someone what they can or can't write. I may not like a work of fanfic, but most have summaries and/or warnings at the top and I just don't read them.
One last rant.
To those who claim 'How do I know if I like a story or not unless I read it?' I ask the following question; how long have you been reading fan fiction? How many stories/summaries have you seen? How can you NOT tell what a fic will be like from the summary?
**self edit self edit self edit**
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Last edited by Haleth on Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Haleth
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 538
Location: The ruins of Tharbad.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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Whoa! 
That was longer than I expected it to be.
Sorry about that, folks.
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BittenBuggy
Joined: 27 Dec 2003
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Location: Busy Being the Queen Of Everything.. And Trying to Catch the Yoda-Copter
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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Lol... good grief... thats all i can say... 
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Ellbee
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Haleth wrote: |
| Ellbee wrote: | | 3) This history is supposedly written by men, and he himself warns against taking man’s ideas about elves as absolute truth. "It must be remembered, however, that it does not necessarily follow that 'True Information' concerning Arda (such as the ancient Eldar might have received from the Valar) must agree with Men's present theories." |
I can't find this paraphrase anywhere within LaCE. Could you please tell me which section it is in?
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It is, according to AC's excellent essay Puritanical Elves and "Morgoth's Ring" - Wishful [Antislash] Thinking or Accidental misreading?, in note 2 to the "Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth" (Morgoth's Ring: 337). Yes, I admit that I am a phony, in that I have gleaned a lot of my Tolkien knowledge from reading other people's stuff.
| Quote: | | As I've said above, I don't think they are ignoring examples that seem to contradict the elves as being sexually pure. I just think they interpret them differently. |
Yep, exactly, and that's cool, I've read and liked plenty of stories that presented a different version of events than I see in my own mind. For myself, I interpret things differently from fic to fic. As I said, as long as a writer can present her ideas plausibly, it's all good. 
-Ell
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Roisin
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 449
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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I argue that "Laws and Customs of the Eldar" describes the way things are supposed to be, not necessarily the way things are. For example, if you read the Catholic Catechism and came away from that thinking you knew how all Catholics actually act....well, you'd be wrong.
I think in the neverending fic on which Sindohte and I are working, we take the view that 1) Elves love only once in a life time, 2) For an Elf, "Love-sex" is very different from "fun-sex," and 3) That Elves are popularly considered by other races (and like to consider themselves) to be somewhat more circumspect in their sexual behavior than other races, however, they don't just sit on it for thousands of years...the poor things would spontaneously combust.
Roisin |
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Haleth
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreth wrote: | Ell made some very good points, all of which I agree with. I think LACE is one of those 'to each his own' things.
I don't consider it binding because it wasn't finished, it was abandoned, and Christopher Tolkien spends a page and a half discussing the inconsistencies of it, after which he does make the statement about it being a "comprehensive, if obscure, declaration of his thought *at that time* on the fundamental aspect of the nature of the Quendi", but in the list of attributes that follows, sex and marriage aren't named. "power of the incarnate fea in relation to the body; the consuming of the body by the fea; the destiny of Elvish spirits.....the meaning of death for such beings, and the consequences of the Marring of Arda by Melkor." |
But Christopher Tolkien's note deal mainly with the structure of the manuscripts, not with the actual content. His preamble to this section, as with all of his preliminary notes, outlines the existing numbers of the manuscript (2) and how he attempts to present them and his reasons for presenting them in this fashion. Again, he casts no doubt at all upon the content of the essays.
The title of the essay itself is "Of the Laws and Customs Among the Eldar Pertaining to Marriage and Other Matters Related Thereto: Together with the Statue of Finwe and Miriel and the Debate of the Valar and its Making.
The things that CT mentions ('the power of the incarnate fea...') are the 'other matters'. JRR Tolkien seems to have thought that the Laws and Customs of marriage were particularly important as they are listed first in the title. The other things, while furnishing important explanations about the nature of the elves, are relegated to 'other matters'.
Many fanfic writers have no trouble accepting the 'other' aspects of this essay. Those who are aware of them often find a way to incorporate them into their writing. It's just the first section that many people would like to ignore. Which if fine, if a little contradictory.
| Andreth wrote: | | The essay itself makes it sound as though the Elves were cool and controlled, little affected by the desire, but Feanor, his sons and a good portion of the Noldor were proven to be affected by desire in the form of anger and vengence - love and sexual desire can't be too far-fetched either. |
The entire Silmarillion is about the Noldor's anger and desire for vengence. These are strong emotions. For humans, the sex drive can be very poweful and can get wrapped up in strong emotions. Therefore, we naturally tend to assume that elves are prone to the same sort of behavior.
Again, if that were the case, it's important enough that I feel Tolkien would have mentioned it. It should have been all over the place in the Silmarillion. He didn't. But that's just my opinion.
Maybe elves, having more control over their bodies, could separate libido from anger and other strong, negative emotions.
And married elves did love each other. It's actually stated in the much maligned LAMCE.
| Andreth wrote: | | It's just my opinion, but I think Tolkien saw the holes in the line of reasoning in some parts of this essay - he went through several ideas for Elvish 'rebirth' in various places - and he abandoned it without resolving it. But then again, he might have come back to it later and not changed a thing. Who knows? |
I don't ascribe the abandonment of the essay to Tolkien seeing holes in his reasoning. In the context of being Catholic, the question of Elvish rebirth would have likely given him quite a bit of trouble. I can't equate the changing ideas about Elvish rebirth to the unchanging ideas of LAMCE. The Catholics have pretty strong views on the sanctity of marriage and Tolkien was very happily married. He was likely very comfortable with the idea of strict monogamy, sex = marriage and the indissolvable nature of the marriage bond. I see a real parallel between his beliefs and these ideas. For whatever reason, he saw fit to incorporate them into behavior of the elves.
| Andreth wrote: | | It's one of those things people interpret differently. Like how a lot of people believe the essay states the Elves lost their desire for sex after so many years and just didn't have it anymore, but I don't read it that way. To me it sounds like the desire for childbearing wanes after a certain age, not the desire for sex. |
I agree with your interpretation of this. It makes sense for a race of immortals to not want to breed like rabbits. Arda would have very quickly been over-run.
| Andreth wrote: | | One of the proposed titles for the essay was Aelfwine's preamble, who was a mortal visitor to Eressea, and Christopher Tolkien points out that "it is clear in any case that it is presented as the work, not of one of the Eldar, but of a Man..." Like Ellbee pointed out, Tolkien said Men weren't all that reliable as historians. |
The rest of this sentence reads:
"...the observation of the variety of names held by the Eldar, 'which...may to us seem bewildering'".
Again, the ideas held within the essay are not called into question.
However, Christopher Tolkien was puzzled by the manuscript itself. Unlike most of his father's other writing, there were no initial drafts and the 'text is remarkable clear and orderly'. He then speculates that it may have been 'substantially composed, the product of long thought, before it was first written down.'
The other stories started in longhand. The scribblers were filled with changes. The early manuscripts were littered with more changes. The second, third and fourth manuscripts were also a nightmare of scribbled notes and yet more changes.
But LAMCE is different. To me (and everyone is, as always, free to disagree with my opinion) this says that the ideas were as close to being set as Tolkien ever got.
I'd really like to know Christopher Tolkien's opinion of this particular part of his father's work.
| Andreth wrote: | | In another part of Morgoth's Rings, under Myths Transformed, Tolkien is talking about the Valar's motives and says we can't always trust the historical documents because they were written by people who were touched by the Shadow, that being Morgoth's evil left which marred Arda. |
I've been skimming Myth's Transformed for 20 minutes and can't find the actual quote. Could you please tell me which section it is in, Andreth?
It looks as though this is a cautionery statement about understanding the Valar and their motives and purpose. The Valar were very far removed from Men. Except for Tuor, we never hear of any actually seeing one of them.
It's difficult to tell without the full context, but this sounds like 'judge not what you do not fully understand'. It's a warning against getting too uppity.
It sounds as though it is being applied specifically in this particular case.
I'm very hesitant to apply this line of reasoning to any of Tolkien's works and this is why.
The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings were supposedly taken from the Red Book of Westmarch. They both written by mortals (the hobbits and the scribes in Gondor who helped them) who all lived under the shadow of Morgoth.
By logical extension, nothing in any of Tolkien's published work is reliable because history books are fallible.
Therefore, people are free to write whatever they want, even if the only things vaguely recognisable are the character names.
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to firmly disagree with you on this one.
| Andreth wrote: | Besides, if the Elves were being observed by a guy who was writing everything down, I figure they were on their best behavior and there weren't a whole lot of them pinching women's butts or having sex out in open meadows or the town square.  |
There are three ways in which people react to someone observing someone scribbling about them.
a) They can be on their best behavior.
b) They can deliberately offer false information because they thing it's funny. (Read Herotodus. The locals knew a guillible naif when they saw one.)
c) They can just continue on as they always would.
The answer is always c. Try as I might, I can't see the elves changing their behavior for the benefit of one human. I'm basing this on the little I've read of Aelfwine's interactions with the elves on Tol Eressea in Lost Tales I.
So it's just my opinion.
As elves weren't human with pointed ears and a really long life expectancy, this point is kind of moot.
| Andreth wrote: | So my post ended up being a lot longer than I intended. These are just my reasons for taking it the way I do - I have absolutely no problem with anyone who takes it to be literal and cut and dried. I think anything in the Histories of Middle-earth is fair game.  |
Your post was a little long! I've written an essay here.
So much for working on any sort of fiction this evening.
Thank-you for the debate, Ellbee and Andreth. I've really enjoyed it!
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Books would not be read, and pipes would not smoke. The day slipped out of his hand, running aimlessly to waste. JRR Tolkien. The Lost Road |
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Ellbee
Joined: 11 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Haleth
Thank-you for the debate, Ellbee and Andreth. I've really enjoyed it![/quote]
Oh, I always enjoy talking to other Tolkien fans. The chances of two readers agreeing on every bit of canon is almost zero, but it's nice when we can hear what other people think without ending every post with "if you disagree with me, you're a moron and not a True Fan!" which is way too prevalent in this fandom. That's why I consider this place something of a refuge.
-Ell
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Haleth
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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Location: The ruins of Tharbad.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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I hearby promise to try my best to keep this short.
It's odd, but the entire reason that I look a closer look at Laws and Marriage Customs of the Eldar was precisely because so many people took so much trouble to dismiss it. Anything that controversial had to be interesting.
Whatever my opinion on LAMCE, there is no way I'd try to force it on someone else. Debate, yes. Insist that my way of seeing things is the only way of seeing things, no.
What is it about some people? Do they actually think they can force everyone to either write only for their approval? This sounds suspiciously like something Morgoth would do. Or do they get some sick pleasure in making other people feel badly?
I've also seen people screaming 'non-canonical, take this fic down' (NOT HERE!!!) and then seen the same people praising an equally non-canonical fic elsewhere.
The difference, I'm thinking, lies in what these people enjoy reading.
Why not just say 'it's not canonical, but I enjoy it' or 'not for me' and leave it at that? Why be nasty to an author? What does it accomplish?
I just wish they'd stop selectively using/slamming* LACME to justify their nastiness.
*No one here has, in my opinion, slammed LACME.
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Books would not be read, and pipes would not smoke. The day slipped out of his hand, running aimlessly to waste. JRR Tolkien. The Lost Road |
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Haleth
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
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Location: The ruins of Tharbad.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Ellbee wrote: | | Haleth wrote: |
| Ellbee wrote: | | 3) This history is supposedly written by men, and he himself warns against taking man’s ideas about elves as absolute truth. "It must be remembered, however, that it does not necessarily follow that 'True Information' concerning Arda (such as the ancient Eldar might have received from the Valar) must agree with Men's present theories." |
I can't find this paraphrase anywhere within LaCE. Could you please tell me which section it is in?
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It is, according to AC's excellent essay Puritanical Elves and "Morgoth's Ring" - Wishful [Antislash] Thinking or Accidental misreading?, in note 2 to the "Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth" (Morgoth's Ring: 337). Yes, I admit that I am a phony, in that I have gleaned a lot of my Tolkien knowledge from reading other people's stuff.
| Quote: | | As I've said above, I don't think they are ignoring examples that seem to contradict the elves as being sexually pure. I just think they interpret them differently. |
Yep, exactly, and that's cool, I've read and liked plenty of stories that presented a different version of events than I see in my own mind. For myself, I interpret things differently from fic to fic. As I said, as long as a writer can present her ideas plausibly, it's all good.
-Ell |
Thanks, Ellbee!
This looks suspiciously like the quote I can't find in Myths Transformed.
It certainly seems to refer to the same thing Myths Transformed does, ie the differences in the cosmology of the elves and that of present day humans.
Myths Transformed seemed to be Tolkien's attempt to harmonise modern day astronomy with the legend of the making of Arda and the making of the sun and moon.
This quote is really taken out of context. It's too much of a generalisation and a stretch for me to apply it to LAMCE. Especially because men did not witness the events before the rising of the sun. They did, however, interact a fair amount with the elves in the Elder days.
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Andreth
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 12:50 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, too tired to get much into any of the points made above. Don't feel bad, Haleth, because I don't agree with yours either, but that's the way of the world, especially the world of Tolkien, it seems. I take absolutely no offense in someone disagreeing with me and mean no offense in my disagreeing with them.
Here's the quote from Morgoth's Ring pg 401-402
"The appearance of selfish faineance in the Valar in the mythology as told is (though I have not explained it or commented on it) I think only an appearance, and one which we are apt to accept as the truth, since we are all in some degree affectted by the shadow and lies of their enemy, the Calumniator. It has to be remembered that the 'mythology' is represented as being two stages removed from a true record: it is based first upon Elvish records and lore about the Valar and their own dealings with them; and these have reached us (fragmentarily) only through relics of Numenorean (human) traditions, derived from the Eldar, in the earlier parts, though for later times supplemented by anthropocentric histories and tales. These, it is true, came down through the 'Faithful' and their descendants in Middle-earth, but could not altogether escape the darkening of the picture due to the hostility of the rebellious Numenoreans to the Valar. Even so and on the grounds of the stories as received, it is possible to view the matter otherwise."
I'm far too tired tonight to go into any discussion of your above points, but as far as this passage, I did say it was concerning the Valar and never meant for it to be applicable to LACE directly - only to show one of the places where Tolkien pointed out that the histories were questionable. He mentions it somewhere else, about the histories being vague, contradictory and sometimes misrepresented (paraphrasing there) because these are supposed to be historical documents and that's the way real historical documents are. The point of view and accuracy a lot of times depends on who's writing it.
But I think that quote is somewhere in Letters. I'll let you know when I run across it again. Probably will in a few weeks as soon as I don't need it anymore. |
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Andreth
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| Haleth wrote: | | Myths Transformed seemed to be Tolkien's attempt to harmonise modern day astronomy with the legend of the making of Arda and the making of the sun and moon. |
Meant to comment on this and forgot, but yes, the first part of Myths Transformed is about the 'flat earth' theory and the sun and the moon but starting at VII there is a section called Notes on motives in the Silmarillion. That last section is the most interesting part of it for me, because it discusses Morgoth and Sauron and their reasons and motivations. That's where the above quote about the Valar comes from, too.
Now I'm off to bed! Good night. |
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BittenBuggy
Joined: 27 Dec 2003
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Location: Busy Being the Queen Of Everything.. And Trying to Catch the Yoda-Copter
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| Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 9:05 am Post subject: |
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That is WAY too deep for the likes of me, peoples. I just liked the passage, found it helpful and insightful. I refuse to read the 10 pages posts you guys wrote... but I respect that you can do that!! *Still amazed*
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Ellbee
Joined: 11 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 10:29 am Post subject: |
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Okay, I finally just went ahead and ordered the durn thing, so I can discuss intelligently rather than relying on second-hand information. I don't expect it to change my opinions though, because I hold them as much out of pure cussedness as intellectual reasoning. I also ordered the first 2 volumes of HoME, because they are paperback and cheap. Are those good choices?
Are people still interested in a Silm thread? I don't want to start one, because I'm just struggling with the first couple of chapters, so I don't really feel qualified. I've heard that there isn't a real narrative thread that runs through it, so maybe there's a better place to start than at the beginning, hm?
-Ell
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Panneth
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
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Location: Manchester/London
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| Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:08 am Post subject: |
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No the Sil's more like a collection of stories that just sort of progress with time and the characters interweave a bit. It's really good though, you should keep going!
I found the Books of Lost Tales (HoME 1 and 2) really interesting. They're quite difficult I think because you have to retain quite a bit of information, but well-worth it in the end.
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PoweroftheBook
Joined: 20 Aug 2003
Posts: 80
Location: Appalachin Mountains of North Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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Going to try and stick my nose in without it getting bitten off...
I remember reading in 'Morgoth's Ring' that Elves cannot cry...which reminds me of a really good Star Trek VI quote that I'll bring up later...but I digress.
Tell me, has anyone written with this ban in mind? I certainly haven't. Tears are such an expressive manner of conveying emotion, that I couldn't bring myself to disallow this in the Elves in my fanfiction.
On the flip side, I've stuck to Tolkien's interpretation of Elvish nature closely. Why? Though my interpretation is different from others (and I love reading other people's interpretations on the nature of Elves), my personal take on Elves is that they are nothing human. They may have certain impulses that are similar to humans, but they are not governed by those impulses as humans tend to be.
For instance, the idea of sexuality...would they be governed by the impulses of the body that would support casual sex? Or would they regard sexuality as a sacred act, the binding of feas, and an act that would not be open to casual contact? The latter answer is supported by Tolkien's words that the bodily union constitutes marriage, but the former is supported by the possibility that Elves could engage in intercourse without their full hearts in it, and not bond with their partner.
There's a wonderful fic out on FF Net by Darma Druid called 'Fortress Around the Heart' that expounds upon Elvish nature and behavior in comparison to the nature of the race of Men. Go read it! 
To find the true answers, we'd have to kidnap ol' Galion from his guard post in Thranduil's dungeons and ply him with some strong wine. Otherwise, we are left to interpret for ourselves.
I prefer to stick with my Elves abstaining from sex, because I tend to think it's closer to Elvish nature, and I think that the concept brings up a whole host of problems that I don't have the time to deal with in my stories. This does not mean that I don't enjoy other interpretations of Elvish nature. I love Maria's 'The Bond' among others of such interpretations. Half the fun for me in reading fanfiction is learning how other people interpret Tolkien's work.
As far as keeping the canon purists happy, I have instituted a system in my stories that marks canon deviations and explains them below. It's a manner in which I can tell the purists that, yes, I read what Tolkien wrote, and here's my proof to that effect. God help me if I forget a single detail, however (glares at 'justo' on FFNet).
Anyway, here's the Star Trek VI quote that always made me laugh...
Scotty: I'll bet that Klingon bitch did it! You saw her father die right in front of her, and she didn't shed a tear!
McCoy: Scotty, Klingons don't have tear ducts.
Scotty: Oh.
Regards,
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