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NancyBrooke
Challenge Admin
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 160
Location: In a motel 6 by the airport
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 Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Okay, shhhhh, there there now .... everybody take a deep breath ...
We're all just expressing our views in this open forum on what we like/like less or might be more comfortable with on this site. Can we take the dramatics down a notch?
Eveyone, and I mean EVERYONE realizes that Do, Scribe and Robbie work their fingers and braincells off to *GIVE* Toklien fans a place to come together, talk and share work. This is known and appreciated it, even if that appreciation is perhaps not voiced enough (but, then, how could it be?).
Criticism sometimes is the sincerest form of flattery; if I didn't care about the site I wouldn't be wasting time commenting on it.
I thought, perhaps, that since Fic is the main point of this site that the fic being generated by the Village might be free to all to chose to read or not on a case x case basis, as is all other fic, without having to wade through all the ancillary forum posts etc. I am sorry if my exploration of this idea in this Open Forum was misconstrued as a lack of appreciation for the site, its administrators, or participants.
I just guess, like Roisin, I'll take your posts, Admins, as a "No" answer.
_________________
NB Duchess of WHY TF Cant'chu Punctuate, First Duchess of F*&(ing &*ll yur comma placement sux!
Nazgul #3 in charge of ducking & sniggering
Garo golf a conu ned i eneth aran an ir ho delitha ad |
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Thule
Joined: 12 Mar 2004
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:40 am Post subject: |
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I would just like to say as a new person here at Open Scrolls and as a member of the virtual village, thank you to the admins and the people running the village for all your hard work. I can see that it has been the subject of some controversy, but please don't think your work is not appreciated!
Since being here I have found it extremely simple to register and find my way around and I know that only comes from people who are putting large amounts of effort into their site. You have a wonderful community that has given us and me the opportunity to share stories with others in a variety of ways. The village is just another outlet, an extension of this and also an example of how the admins are willing to try new things, but also keep everyone in mind by accommodating various needs and concerns. That in my opinion should never be overlooked.
Robbie, Dolarbee and Scribe you have my thanks as a humble newbie for a quality site and your continued patience!
Mora, Andreth, BB, Sindhote and please forgive me if I missed anyone! Thanks for all your hard work!
I look forward to sharing this place with friends, reading more of the stories and generally getting to know everyone that I can!
Thank you!  |
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dolarabee
Site Admin
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 175
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| Roisin wrote: | | Quote: | | Would it be possible to have this as a separate part of the archive, but not completely "hidden" in the way it is now? I don't care to "participate," but wouldn't mind being able to read a story now and then, and I expect other people are in the same boat. |
Oh. Ok. I guess the answer to my question would be a "no," then. |
No. Actually, the answer is "yes". If you cared to check the front page, you'd find that the Virtual Village is announced there. It is not totally hidden. I'll admit it's not that big of an ad so far but that's because we haven't had the time nor the chance to chat with the VV mods to find a suitable little ad message to 'promote' it yet. So, yes, you can read a story now and then. Just register first. A really simple step of e-mailing village@openscrolls.net with "VV Registration" and your username in the subject line. The Virtual Village story archive will appear next to the Open Scrolls one on the front page. And hey presto you can read all you like. Nowhere does it say you'd have to participate into the 'game'. You can be just a reader.
As for the tone of our comments, I'd ask you all to put yourselves in our shoes. People ask for A. We give them A. Then others come and say, well, I think B would work best. So we give them B, making sure that the A people also get what they want. And then what happens, the B people don't really want B anymore. B is too B. Maybe going back to A would be best... I mean, come on. Take the B and register like the A people had to and you'll get A out of the B you asked for. Is it so hard to understand?
do.
_________________
Je sais de la vie qu'elle se termine souvent au lit,
Et que d'autres ont bien plus de chance trépassent de rire ou de jouissance,
Mais pire que la mort qui vient c'est l'amour qui ne vient jamais.
~ Daniel Bélanger |
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dolarabee
Site Admin
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 175
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| NancyBrooke wrote: | | Okay, shhhhh, there there now .... everybody take a deep breath ... |
I'd really cut that out if I were you.
| NancyBrooke wrote: | | We're all just expressing our views in this open forum on what we like/like less or might be more comfortable with on this site. Can we take the dramatics down a notch? |
Err, considering we just spent our free time designing and coding and testing to give you exactly what you people asked for over this past weekend's debacle and you lot still aren't happy? Nope. The dramatics are still going up a few notches, thank you.
| NancyBrooke wrote: | | Eveyone, and I mean EVERYONE realizes that Do, Scribe and Robbie work their fingers and braincells off to *GIVE* Toklien fans a place to come together, talk and share work. This is known and appreciated it, even if that appreciation is perhaps not voiced enough (but, then, how could it be?). |
Let's all understand each other here. We're not looking for pats on the back (though they're very nice ). We're looking for appreciation in what's provided - especially when it's been done a certain way because you asked for it that way. Yes, it might be an extra click of the mouse, or - god forbid - an e-mail to fire off to get what you want, but in the end you do. We've made it so that you do.
| NancyBrooke wrote: | | I thought, perhaps, that since Fic is the main point of this site that the fic being generated by the Village might be free to all to chose to read or not on a case x case basis, as is all other fic, without having to wade through all the ancillary forum posts etc. |
Okay...
1) the fics are free to be read or not on a case x case basis; you just need to register (for free and with a minimum of fuss) to be able to view the VV story archive.
2) you do not have to wade through the VV section in the forum to read the fics. Since the very beginning of this, it was decided that no fic would be posted on the forum, and none has. So I'm not too sure where this is coming from. Fic posting was held up until we created a separate story archive to hold the stories generated by the Virtual Village.
| NancyBrooke wrote: | | I just guess, like Roisin, I'll take your posts, Admins, as a "No" answer. |
See my reply to Roisin. It's a "Yes" answer. An annoyed-sounding one maybe, but still a "Yes" answer.
do. (one third of the yes people)
_________________
Je sais de la vie qu'elle se termine souvent au lit,
Et que d'autres ont bien plus de chance trépassent de rire ou de jouissance,
Mais pire que la mort qui vient c'est l'amour qui ne vient jamais.
~ Daniel Bélanger |
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Roisin
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 449
Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If you cared to check the front page, |
Yes, I am familiar with the front page. There is a very small ad for the Virtual Village, and you have to register to read any of the stories. My question was whether the VV could be separate but not "ghosted," (in your own words) so that people who wanted to read the stories could do so without having to register or do anything special other than click on a separate link. If that's not going to happen, fine. It's really not that big a deal. But since this forum is for "suggestions and feedback," I was giving a suggestion.
It was a simple question and IMO merited a simple, civil answer not "fuck you, go to fanfic.net, you didn't read the front page."
Roisin |
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dolarabee
Site Admin
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 175
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| Roisin wrote: | | If that's not going to happen, fine. It's really not that big a deal. But since this forum is for "suggestions and feedback," I was giving a suggestion. |
I can only assume you weren't here then a few days ago. 'Cause if you were, you would know that what you're suggesting is exactly how it was: a separate story archive that you could access by clicking on the link.
People complained (and shoot me for thinking that you were part of that 'discussion' over the weekend, siding with the people complaining), so we changed it and ghosted it to please all parties.
Now, you're asking to go back to how it was... I'm sorry if it's not received very well.
Personally, I don't see what's the big deal about the registration. It's a one off. You'll never notice anything after that and you'll see the archive alongside the Open Scrolls one. End of story.
do.
_________________
Je sais de la vie qu'elle se termine souvent au lit,
Et que d'autres ont bien plus de chance trépassent de rire ou de jouissance,
Mais pire que la mort qui vient c'est l'amour qui ne vient jamais.
~ Daniel Bélanger |
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JennnLee
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 123
Location: Orlando, FL
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| dolarabee wrote: | | Err, considering we just spent our free time designing and coding and testing to give you exactly what you people asked for over this past weekend's debacle and you lot still aren't happy? Nope. The dramatics are still going up a few notches, thank you. |
Oh, good, because I'm feeling a bit dramatic myself.
I didn't ask for the village to be hidden. I simply asked that the admins think about the effect the village would have on the casual person who surfed into the site. I said that bondage fic isn't my cup of tea. I've since been informed by quite a few people that it's not all about that, even though those were the only stories I had seen so far, so my first impression was incorrect.
You told us that you were away for the weekend, and would address concerns Sunday evening your time. In the meantime, there was a fairly civil discussion from both sides as far as what this village thing was. It sprang up pretty fast, and seemingly took everyone unawares, so that discussion was a chance to educate everyone on all sides.
Yes, toward the end things started to get a little UNcivil. But there were no flames, and not a lot of mudslinging, and I was very surprised when Robbie was "forced" to close the thread.
Then you post on the front page telling us all to grow up. I'm 31 years old, I'm plenty grown up, and frankly I was insulted when the admin of a site I support says such to me. The impression (which was backed up in a PM to me) was that we as a community cannot talk about this site and changes and the like when you are not there to implement them right away. Why is that? Nobody was impatient; we all knew you were away. Nobody was demanding that changes be made RIGHT NOW. I was looking forward to your return, and to hearing your points of view on the topic. Instead, we're simply told to grow up.
You said in a livejournal post that I'm not being singled out. Well, I sure am. My name was mentioned in the "grow up" post. And in this thread, it's now pretty obvious that I'm one of the two people that "complained" about the village. And now that my first impression has been corrected, do you think I would be welcomed in such a community that I supposedly complained about? I spent a good deal of the weekend trying to defend my position, which was mainly the impression THIS SITE would make on new eyes, and there was some mud flung in my direction over it.
I really loved this site. I was forming new friendships, but now that they're mostly involved in the Village, I feel like some kind of pariah, and that they're all sharing a private joke I'm not invited to share. The door on it has certainly been slammed in my face, since I'm now officially one of the people who "complained" about it. My problem, certainly. I have my own emotional issues I'm dealing with that probably color the whole thing my own shade of blue.
You all work very very hard for this site and you know how much it is appreciated by all. And I'm sure that expressing my feelings thus will get me banned from this site or similar, as Nancy was taken to task for suggesting you take a deep breath. No one is against you, and NO ONE was complaining. This site is a wonderful one, and I am sure it will continue to thrive under your care and attention. |
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Roisin
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 449
Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| dolarabee wrote: |
People complained (and shoot me for thinking that you were part of that 'discussion' over the weekend, siding with the people complaining), so we changed it and ghosted it to please all parties.
do. |
I think that part of the issue JennLee was having was that there were 2 or 3 BDSM stories coming up when you clicked on "current stories.." and she thought that people were going to look at that and think it was some sort of bondage archive. I certainly was not "siding" with the people complaining; if anything, I was trying to calm people down because I thought the whole issue was a bit of a tempest in a teapot.
I'll admit, I'm not really sure in some ways what JL was complaining about b/c by the time she posted the village threads had already been moved to their own forum. 
It's your site and you can do what you want. I was posting a suggestion because I thought you wanted feedback. 
Roisin |
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JennnLee
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 123
Location: Orlando, FL
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Roisin wrote: |
I think that part of the issue JennLee was having was that there were 2 or 3 BDSM stories coming up when you clicked on "current stories.." and she thought that people were going to look at that and think it was some sort of bondage archive. |
God bless you, Roisin. That's all I was ever trying to say.
| Quote: | | I'll admit, I'm not really sure in some ways what JL was complaining about b/c by the time she posted the village threads had already been moved to their own forum. |
I think I had expressed some disappointment in the fact that the village threads accounted for about 85% of discussions, and that if you weren't a part of the village, it seemed like you weren't a part of the site anymore. I wasn't complaining about the threads, I wasn't complaining about the stories, and I WASN'T COMPLAINING ABOUT THE VILLAGE!!
Sorry to shout, but I'm trying and trying to get that understood.[/b] |
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NancyBrooke
Challenge Admin
Joined: 11 May 2003
Posts: 160
Location: In a motel 6 by the airport
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| dolarabee wrote: | | NancyBrooke wrote: | | Okay, shhhhh, there there now .... everybody take a deep breath ... |
I'd really cut that out if I were you. |
If another suggestion isn't out of line I suggest this thread be closed. My earlier attempt to be calming and rational was met by a threat from one of the people I count on to enforce that this forum remain civil. It is clear that tempers are running too hot in some quarters to discuss this further, particularly since the minds of the admins are already made up, actions have been taken, and further discussion from the members of this site is unwanted.
Shut the thread down.
_________________
NB Duchess of WHY TF Cant'chu Punctuate, First Duchess of F*&(ing &*ll yur comma placement sux!
Nazgul #3 in charge of ducking & sniggering
Garo golf a conu ned i eneth aran an ir ho delitha ad |
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Scribe
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 4
Location: Betelgeuse
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Roisin wrote: | | Quote: | | If you cared to check the front page, |
Yes, I am familiar with the front page. There is a very small ad for the Virtual Village, and you have to register to read any of the stories. My question was whether the VV could be separate but not "ghosted," (in your own words) so that people who wanted to read the stories could do so without having to register or do anything special other than click on a separate link. If that's not going to happen, fine. It's really not that big a deal. But since this forum is for "suggestions and feedback," I was giving a suggestion.
It was a simple question and IMO merited a simple, civil answer not "fuck you, go to fanfic.net, you didn't read the front page."
Roisin |
Perhaps that was a bit harsh on my part, but I hope that the response tells you how ticked off I personally am. Exactly, what do you think we are magicians? You say its not that big a deal, I've had everything from the integrity of this site to the fact that a few posters got enthusiastic for the first week of the VV's existence and overposted. I tried to address the problem by establishing a set of ground rules, but no I come back to a discussion that plainly questions the standards of this site because apparently BDSM fics in some view points cannot be called quality fiction which makes my desire to establish a site for that purpose moot.
So Rob whose already been pushed to the limit with how much coding he has to do for something that just came right at us without much warning, set up the registration feature. But no, you don't want to register but still want the VV accessible. Give us break, you say its not a big deal, how much of a big deal would it be to register? I am not singling anyone out but let's face it, a minority of the 700 or so members is being catered for and now we're told they want to be able to read the stuff but not register. I mean what else can we do?
We don't want your appreciation but a little less nitpicking would help, we are accomodating you in every possible way we can think of even if some posts to us sound rather condascending. And yes, that's what ticks me off. The coding takes a lot of work without having people wanting it tailor made to suit their needs because its too damn hard to register. Honestly, feedback is one thing and if we ignored yours this issue would not be under discussion at all and we would have told you to deal with the fact that the VV is here. Instead we've given you option only to be told they're not quite up to par with your needs.
So I am reiiterating - the system as it stands is how its going to be. I don't think its too much to ask that you register if you want to see the VV. Other than that, there's not much else we can do or are willing to expend on this issue. |
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miriel361
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 417
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Peace .... please? |
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JennnLee
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 123
Location: Orlando, FL
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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I'm going to try again.
| Quote: | I tried to address the problem by establishing a set of ground rules, but no I come back to a discussion that plainly questions the standards of this site because apparently BDSM fics in some view points cannot be called quality fiction which makes my desire to establish a site for that purpose moot.
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I never said that BDSM fics are not of good quality. I said that if there are a great deal of Village BDSM fics mixed in with the "regular" archived stories, that it might change the way the site is viewed by someone who's never been here before.
I don't remember any ground rules being laid, other than "it's an adult section," and I had been under the impression that this whole village section would be discussed and addressed. I thought you would want to know what members of your community think about changes made to the site. Instead, we're told to grow up, changes are made that you said we asked for, and when someone asks a question we're sniped at.
I never questioned the standards of this site. I simply said that the impression newcomers had might be different than what you expect. I'm very sorry to have insulted...well, anything and everything, apparently. |
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Robbie
Site Admin
Joined: 22 Jun 2003
Posts: 1100
Location: Sydney, Australia.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for everyone's feedback - it is appreciated, and we responded in the best way possible. Even with all the comments in this thread, we still think we're responded in the best way possible.
But to answer the very first post in this thread - for those that think it's not split, erm, it is.
End of topic.
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Rob
www.crackingegg.com |
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Robbie
Site Admin
Joined: 22 Jun 2003
Posts: 1100
Location: Sydney, Australia.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Robbie wrote: | Thanks for everyone's feedback - it is appreciated, and we responded in the best way possible. Even with all the comments in this thread, we still think we're responded in the best way possible.
But to answer the very first post in this thread - for those that think it's not split, erm, it is.
End of topic. |
P.S. That was my polite answer...
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Rob
www.crackingegg.com |
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