| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
sindohte
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 1621
Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
|
 Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:16 am Post subject: Silmarillion Reading Group - Valaquenta |
 |
|
Discussion of the Valaquenta will begin officially on Tuesday 3/30
Anyone wandering by this thread should feel free to raise questions or make comments.
Please try to keep the comments on this thread strictly related to discussion of the Silm.
_________________
abandon thought, and let the dream descend... |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
sindohte
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 1621
Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
Now I have a perfectly valid excuse for not posting any comments about this section of the Silm yet - I haven't read it!!!  So what about some of the other folks out there? Has anyone read the assignment for this week and would like to pop in? Or has everyone been a bit behind with things like me and haven't had a chance to read yet? My game plan is to have the section read by tomorrow night and then post something.
_________________
abandon thought, and let the dream descend... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Anna
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 548
Location: Sweden
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 5:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
Sounds good to me!
I´ve been busy with such mundane things as work, laundry etc. Plus, my entire weekend was spent in the bathroom throwing up, since I was hit by a rather nasty case of the flu. 
I have read the Valaquenta, but that was years ago. So....I´ll read it tonight and join the discussion tomorrow! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BittenBuggy
Joined: 27 Dec 2003
Posts: 2108
Location: Busy Being the Queen Of Everything.. And Trying to Catch the Yoda-Copter
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
The Valaquenta might be my favorite chapter next to the Fall of the Noldor. The wonderful professer just spells everything out for you.
Manwe = Lord of Air
Ulmo = Lord of Water
Aule = Lord of Earth/Crafts
Melkor = Bad Guy....exc.
Its a very easy chapter to get through (in my opinion) Everything is just so simple!
_________________
-The Queen of Everything - so dubed by Aerin
-"My ultimate fantasy is to entice a man to my bedroom, put a gun to his head and say, 'Make babies or die'."
-"The Pope! how many divisions has he got?" - Stalin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Elvenesse
Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 82
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 7:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
I've read the book through quite a few times in the last couple of years, but I find it's better just to jump from part to part or use it for research.
I find that the best thing is having in on audio CD. Since I got it at Christmas I've listened to it almost constantly and learnt so much.
_________________
Courage is not the absence of fear: it is the mastery of it.
www.livejournal.com/users/unnumberedtears |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Meleka
Joined: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 166
Location: Melbourne, Australia
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 7:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
I was a naughty girl too and didn't read the chapter till tonight. 
What i did learn reading this chapter for the second time are the real names of Mandos and Lorien. And that mandos and Lorien are the names of Namo and Irmo's realms (so to speak) My score on the quiz would have looked better if i had of paid better attention. 
I have to say i found this chapter easier to read (but i must admit that has a lot to do with Andreth's A Veiled Light fic).
It reminded me of reading a text book in explaing everyones relationship to each other, their strengths and weaknesses.
Some really good quotes in this section that explain a lot especially Melkor such as "melkor spent his spirit in envy and hate, until at last he could make nothing save in mockery of the though of others - and all their works he destroyed if he could" and "squandered his strength in violence and tyranny"
Yep Melkor's a control freak!!! 
_________________
Is it bad to want Glorfindel and Haldir chained to my bed..... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Elvenesse
Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 82
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 8:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
Some of the Valar are named as 'brethren', but if Eru created them, should not all of them be brethren or none of them? It seems strange that Eru would pick and choose.
Also, there's 'Until in the time appointed was made Arda the Kingdom of Earth.' And Manwë is named 'Lord of the Realm of Arda'. It seems to imply that Arda is the earth, when it’s more complicated than that.
_________________
Courage is not the absence of fear: it is the mastery of it.
www.livejournal.com/users/unnumberedtears |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Elvenesse
Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Posts: 82
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 8:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Meleka wrote: | Some really good quotes in this section that explain a lot especially Melkor such as "melkor spent his spirit in envy and hate, until at last he could make nothing save in mockery of the though of others - and all their works he destroyed if he could" and "squandered his strength in violence and tyranny"
Yep Melkor's a control freak!!! |
Those are nice ones, I really like the chapter 'Of the Enemies', lots of nice stuff there, and it's short.
The Valaraukar is a good description, and I think this one on Sauron is useful: | Quote: | | 'In all the deeds of Melkor the Morgoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part, and was only less evil than his master in that for long he served another and not himself. But in after years he rose like a shadow of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the Void.' |
_________________
Courage is not the absence of fear: it is the mastery of it.
www.livejournal.com/users/unnumberedtears |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 665
Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 5:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I found this selection a lot easier to read than the last one. The most meaningful part to me was the one that says:
"If Varda is beside him [Manwë], he sees further than all other eyes ... And if Manwë is with her, Varda hears more clearly than all other ears ... "
I thought it was a beautiful way of saying that yes, they're powerful, but they are even more powerful if they work together as a team.
_________________
~ boe an phân pedi ‘lam dadui ~ 
~ everyone should speak a second language ~ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BittenBuggy
Joined: 27 Dec 2003
Posts: 2108
Location: Busy Being the Queen Of Everything.. And Trying to Catch the Yoda-Copter
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Oh Maria, I've always loved that concept! I had a fic based on that very quote... its lost somewhere amidst the cobwebs of my hard drive though! 
So who is everyone's favoriate Vala and why? (Kickstart a mini-discussion) Sind, tell me if you'd like to move this to another thread.
_________________
-The Queen of Everything - so dubed by Aerin
-"My ultimate fantasy is to entice a man to my bedroom, put a gun to his head and say, 'Make babies or die'."
-"The Pope! how many divisions has he got?" - Stalin |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sindohte
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 1621
Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 8:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Discussion of who is your favorite Vala would be on topic since it relates to the chapter we are currently discussing.
_________________
abandon thought, and let the dream descend... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Thuriniel
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 665
Location: Watching the purple sky fly over me ...
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 10:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | I had a fic based on that very quote... its lost somewhere amidst the cobwebs of my hard drive though! |
You should find it then! I loved the way Tolkien worded that concept. He didn't just go and said: "together they were more powerful" ... he merely showed us the relationship between Varda and Manwe and then he let us come up with the conclusion on our own. It was beautiful.
My favorite Vala? Ulmo, without a doubt. I love the sea and I really liked the concept of the waters being the only matter that cannot be touched by evil. Ulmo himself doesn't very often leave the waters, and doesn't take a bodily form either. In essence it would seem that Ulmo is the purest of the Vala, the one that is truest to his original state. I also loved the description of the shell-shaped horns of Ulmo providing the music of the ocean. I have a weakness for anything that has to do with the sea  .
_________________
~ boe an phân pedi ‘lam dadui ~
~ everyone should speak a second language ~ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sindohte
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 1621
Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 9:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sheesh, I finally got around to reading this section tonight. My first question/observation - There are seven Lords of the Valar and seven Queens of the Valar. Very nice, neat, and tidy. So where does Melkor fit into this puzzle? Just because he is not considered one of the Valar any longer, did he ever have a female counterpart? Or is that one of the loose threads Tolkien left hanging?
Could you imagine the plot bunny of all plot bunnies that would be?
_________________
abandon thought, and let the dream descend... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Viv
Challenge Admin
Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Posts: 71
Location: Texas
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 10:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| sindohte wrote: | Sheesh, I finally got around to reading this section tonight. My first question/observation - There are seven Lords of the Valar and seven Queens of the Valar. Very nice, neat, and tidy. So where does Melkor fit into this puzzle? Just because he is not considered one of the Valar any longer, did he ever have a female counterpart? Or is that one of the loose threads Tolkien left hanging?
Could you imagine the plot bunny of all plot bunnies that would be? |
Did Tolkien ever say what Thuringwethil was? I figured since she was a shapeshifter she must be Maia at least. But maybe she was Morgoth's Vala counterpart, who spent way too much time with Sauron (ooooh, triangle).... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sindohte
Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 1621
Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
So tell me more about Thuringwethil, you more learned folks. My Tolkien for Dummies book said she was some type of vampiric creature who was a servant of Sauron. What other information is out there about her origins?
_________________
abandon thought, and let the dream descend... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Live Journal Feed
