[Roisin]

Not disagreeing with what Rob is saying, but what about the highland warriors in kilts who went commando underneath? Scotland is damned chilly, too.

I can't believe I'm having a serious discussion about underwear and sanitary products in Middle Earth. It's like the mother ship has called me home.

Roisin

[Halfwest]

*cough* Well, um.... Being the curious sort that I am, I actually HAVE done some research in the area and here's the thing: prior to the 17-1800's, in general, women simply did not menstruate regularly the way they do today. It wouldn't have made sense to do so. Because of deficiencies in nutrition (there is no Special K in Middle Earth...) their bodies very simply could not afford such a massive loss of calcium/iron/etc every month. Furthermore, when they DID have their period, they actually DID have non-factory-produced equivilants of a tampon. I mean, think about it. How hard is it to make a tampon? It's just layered cloth. See? Now, a step further with the thinking: did medieval people let their toddlers go to the bathroom wherever they pleased? Of course not. Even peasants weren't THAT filthy. People still use cloth diapers today. I'm sure women of various times and cultures had similar methods.

Which brings us back to the question of underwear. Depending on the regularity of their menstrual cycles and methods of dealing with it, they may or may not have had any need to wear panties. SO. My guesses are as such:

The women of Gondor -- or at the very least of Minas Tirith -- had a fairly constant diet, no need to hunt/forage/whatever, permanent and safe lodgings, etc. They may have come closest to being like modern women in terms of their biological clocks.

Hobbit women, assuming their physical makeup is similar enough to ours to take them into account, were probably right up there with Gondorian women if not more so. They, too, had a safe environment, a steady (an ample!) diet, and the means to reproduce, which we KNOW they had the capability of doing prolifically (thirteen children????) Thus, it would have made sense for hobbit women to wear some manner of undergarments.

Women of Rohan led a much harsher life. Eowyn herself was a shieldmaiden who managed looking the part of a man quite well. As a society of warriors with, seemingly, a far less varied and constant diet, these women probably had very irregular cycles if they menstruated at all. Most likely, as with women in the middle ages, their reproductive ability had an external trigger: namely, sex. Meaning that their bodies *only* prepared to have babies when a man was present to make them. It's a matter of hormones.

Elves... all right let's think. HOW often to Elves reproduce? Like, NEVER?? Okay, Arwen managed it with Aragorn. Two children, wasn't it? But Elvish culture is such that there are very few barriers between men and women, and such a notable lack of cultural barriers would suggest a certain lack of physical barriers. So. This leads us to the conclusion that Elf women were entirely different from mortal women in their physical makeup, and probably didn't need to worry about having their period.

As for other types of support, it seems to me that Elvish and Rohirric women would have needed some manner of support based on their activities. In both cases the answer was probably something like a corset but without the rigidity or constriction of breath. Who knows, maybe Elves had invented elastic and wore sports bras.

As for the men.... now HONESTLY. I watch the Discovery channel. Don't you even TRY to tell me that men need "support" when there are tribal societies in Africa who manage to go through their hunter-gatherer lives QUITE efficiently with three-foot-long bamboo tubes tied to their equipment. Support. BAH. Any man here has my invitation to stick two plastic bags full of Jello to their chest and THEN talk to me about support. [/i]

[dolarabee]

[Halfwest]

Speaking as a former Catholic School student who was obligated to stand around outside before sunrise during the winter months waiting for the van to school... I can tell you with authority that you come up with some pretty innovative ways to keep yer bum from freezing off. And that wool is some niiiiiice stuff when it comes to keeping out the wind.

[dolarabee]

You're telling me you weren't allowed to wear thights with the school uniform?

Boy, am I glad I was born in Canada. We've got some common sense when it comes to cold weather...

do. (who knows she's just opened the box to some abuse now)

[Robbie]

[NancyBrooke]

[sindohte]

[Roisin]

When we visited Ross castle in Killarney, they showed us the privy room and told us how they would hang their clothes there b/c the ammonia stench would discourage lice.

Even though ME is to a certain extent a medieval society, I've decided to give them good teeth, daily baths, and semi-modern sanitary facilities in my head and my fanfic.

Roisin

[sindohte]

[Maram68]

I am currently reading Michael Crichton's "Timeline", and there they make a most accurate description of the garments worn in the 13th century which could apply to Middle Earth.

Male
First, no buttons, all is laced
Second, they wore somekind of undershorts under their hose (no leggins!) and there were two kinds of hose (for daily use and dress-ocassions)
Third, an overshirt and
Fourth, a doublet.

The funny detail here was the fact that the undershorts are held up by a belt (that goes underneath all the rest). The hose is held up by lacing it (through slits in the shirt) to the doublet.

I must say, quite interesting. The comment of one of the 21st century characters in the novel who had to dress all this was: "I feel like a trussed chicken"

Imagine now writing smut while setting a trussed .... whatever free...

That was my little wisdom of the day, folks!!!!

[Roisin]

Sindohte, it's probably a good idea nobody ever mentioned that method to a certain counselor.......

Roisin

[sindohte]

[Gaslight]

While we're speaking about what's under knickers and dresses....how about all those smooth thighs most OFCs possess? No Bics, no Gillettes, no triple blade razors for that close shave, no cold wax... Just how does leg hair fail to grow in Middle Earth?

And another question: Just why do smut scenes conveniently fall within the first 24-36 hours after shaving their legs when the sheen is still on the skin and there are NO prickles so the hero's hand can do it's sexy stroke??? I think every romance author ever published is guilty of this little oversight - except for Bertrice Small's 10,000 harem novels she's done where the heroine undergoes an obligatory dipiliatory to make her "Venus mons" smooth and alluring. (Trussed chickens?? How about plucked chickens?)

[sheraiah]