[Thuriniel]

[Anna]

[Thuriniel]

From what I learned in that discussion, apparently the word for leaf and ear share the same root (I don't quite see it in Sindarin so maybe this happens in Quenya ... unless there is another word for leaf or ear I don't know in Sindarin -- leaf: lass, galenas ear: lhewig). Thus the conclusion is that they named ear after leaf because the ears are leaf-shaped.

But just to be against everyone else and to raise a bit of controversy (wouldn't discussions be boring without two sides?!), I pointed out that there are leaves that are round, and that, to my knowledge, Tolkien didn't specify on the shape. I think that later on I found out that he did mention something on the subject in a letter, but I don't recall where I got the info from ... maybe Panneth? I'll need to ask her.

Anna, I feel like I've found a partner in crime !

PS: I too root for pointy ears ... but it's fun to consider all possibilities!

[Panneth]

Please... don't get me started on this... I will summarise what I know in one sentence. The word for leaves and the word for ears have the same root and whenever Tolkien drew leaves he drew beech ones which have a slight point to them.

Mar I will kill you for bringing this up again...

[LuthienTinuviel]

Do we wish to discuss the attributes of whether pointyness have anything to do with heightened hearing?

[Thuriniel]

[Panneth]

[Moralanqua]

cats have pointed ears - why are we assuming the bio physicality of elves is the same as humans?

something has to explain their heightened senses and really big....bows!

[BittenBuggy]

Yeah, I've always wondered about those big 'bows'

Elves had heightened senses.. I see no reason to analyze WHY. Tolkien was an english major, not a biology buff.

[inglor]

I freaking KNEW I shouldn't have said anything about freaking Balrogs...

Sorry Andreth, I thought the picnic reference was rather clever

[Panneth]

One day when Housemate A is less stressed about her finals I will ask her about ears. She's just finishing an anatomy degree. She's very good about putting up with weird questions for us in this house!

[Andreth]

[Anna]

[Andreth]

Okay, I'll weigh in on the ears discussion. The comparison for leaves and ears comes from the Etymologies in The Lost Road:

Las (1)
*lasse 'leaf': Q lasse, N lhass; Q lasselanta 'leaf-fall, autumn', N lhasbelin (*lassekwelene), cf. Q Narquelion [ KWEL ]. Lhasgalen 'Greenleaf' (Gnome name of Laurelin).
Las (2)
'listen'. N lhaw 'ears' (of one person), old dual *lasu - whence singular lhewig. Q lar, lasta- 'listen'; lasta 'listening, hearing' - Lastalaika 'sharp-ears', a name, cf. N Lhathleg. N lhathron 'hearer, listener, eavesdropper' ( *la(n)sro-ndo ) ; lhathro or lhathrando 'listen in, eavesdrop'.

And when discussing the subject of Elvish ears, this quote from Letters is always brought up, Letter #27 when Tolkien was describing the appearance of Hobbits:

"I picture a fairly human figure ... fattish in the stomach, shortish in the leg. A round, jovial face; ears only slightly pointed and 'elvish'; hair short and curling (brown)."


So the argument against pointed ears is that Tolkien clearly regretted using the word 'Elves' as a translation for Quendi because it brought too many connotations with folktale Elves, which his Quendi were nothing like.

Letter #154 - "'Elves' is a translation, not perhaps now very suitable, but originally good enough, of Quendi. They are represented as a race similar in appearance (and more so the further back) to Men, and in former days of the same stature. I will not here go into their differences from Men! But I suppose that the Quendi are in fact in these histories very little akin to the Elves and Fairies of Europe;..."

Letter #151 - "Also I now deeply regret having used Elves, though this is a word in ancestry and original meaning suitable enough. But the disastrous debasement of this word, in which Shakespeare played an unforgivable part, has really overloaded it with regrettable tones, which are too much to overcome."

RotK Appendix F - "Elves has been used to translate both Quendi 'the speakers', the High-elven name of all their kind, and Eldar, the name of the Three Kindreds that sought for the Undying Realm... This old word was indeed the only one available, and was once fitted to apply to such memories of this people as Men preserved... But it has been diminished, and to many it may now suggest fancies either pretty or silly, as unlike to the Quendi of old as are butterflies to the swift falcon..."


So there's the 'for and against' reasons that usually come up. I like to think of them with tapered ears, but I don't like these ears with points so big that they look like you could make kabobs on them.

And on the heightened hearing topic - if pointed ears increased hearing then why didn't Hobbits have increased hearing? Tolkien definitely described their ears as being pointed. I think all the Elves senses were heightened more because of their strong connection of the spirit to the body. But that's just my thoughts.

Yet another long post.....sorry BB.


Anna

[Andreth]