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Estella Bolger

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NancyBrooke
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 11:00 am    Post subject: Estella Bolger Reply with quote

I know it's generally taken that Merry marries Estella Bolger but where is it written? And is she Fredegar (Fatty's) sister?

Help?

N

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BittenBuggy



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nancy, I honestly have no idea if it's 'written' anywhere. I haven't seen much material on hobbits in general except in the appendix of the RotK. In the appendix, it has Merry's family tree listed and he is married to Estella Bolger, but it doesn't talk about children or anything.

Pippin though marries Diamond of Long Cleeve and has Faramir I, who later goes on to marry Sam's daughter Goldilocks. That is probably why it mentions any of Pip's kids in the first place. Estella probably just wasn't very important.

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NancyBrooke
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See, now, I don't even find it in the family trees ... Where Merry shows up in both the Took and Brandybuck lines there's no spouse and no children in my book.

Help, Help!

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BittenBuggy



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm working out of the red leather-bound collectors edition, but I don't know why that would make any difference. The refference page for the Brandybuck family tree is on page 382 in the bottom left-hand corner.

Also, the Encyclopedia of Arda has Estella listed as Merry's wife, and I have found that site to be very acurate for the most part.

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Andreth



Joined: 24 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Nancy,

This is scanned from Peoples of Middle-earth pg 117.

"On one of his copies of the First Edition he added to the geneaology of the Tooks (Fredegar's mother being Rosamunda Took) "Estella' as the sister of Fredegar and her birth-date 1385; and to the Brandybuck genealogy he added to Meridadoc '=Estalla Bolger 1385', noting beside this that he had told a correspondent in 1965 that 'I believe he married a sister of Fredegar Bolger of the Bolgers of Budgeford.' These corrections, for a reason unknown to me, were not incorporated in the Allen and Unwin Second Edition, but they did occur in a later impression of the Ballantine edition of 1966, and hence Estella Bogler and her marriage to Merry Brandybuck are entered in the Complete Guide to Middle-earth by Robert Foster.

These additions to the family trees were made at the insistence of Douglas A Anderson in the Houghton Mifflin edition of 1987 to which he contributed a note on the history of the text. Estella Bolger and her marriage to Meriadoc have finally entered the British 'tradition' in the re-set edition published by Harper Collins in 1994. "


So it's in some of the newer publications but not the older ones. My RotK is an original copy and it's not on that family tree either. But it is accurate, so you're safe. Very Happy

Anna
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queenoftheshire



Joined: 03 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there's a conflict between editions. See one of mine says he married Estella on the family tree and in the timelines but in my newest version it just says it on the family tree.
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SilverMoonLady



Joined: 14 Jul 2003
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Location: Breaking in a Brandybuck... *wicked grin*

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh please oh please tell me! Is there a marriage date for them? See... I write Merry/Estella fics and my copy of LOTR doesn't have even her existence, though I had it on good authority that she did indeed marry Merry from a friend with the complete copy. If there's any date beyond that of her birth mentioned, PLEASE tell me... I do so want to stay within cannon!

Help!!!
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SilverMoonLady



Joined: 14 Jul 2003
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Location: Breaking in a Brandybuck... *wicked grin*

PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 8:16 am    Post subject: Ack! Reply with quote

It's official, I am the thread killer. Every post I ask/answer literally, moments later, dies.......... Oh well Razz
Probably the lack of frisky elves....

Wink
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NancyBrooke
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 9:26 am    Post subject: Re: Ack! Reply with quote

SilverMoonLady wrote:
It's official, I am the thread killer. Every post I ask/answer literally, moments later, dies.......... Oh well Razz
Probably the lack of frisky elves....

Wink


As far as I'm concerned Frisky elves have no place here, Hon (and would have only limited real-estate elsewhere, if I had my way) ... it's just I had nothing to add! I have no idea if there is a marriage date for Merry and Estella. It's troublesome enough that various editions of the trilogy don't even list Estella's existence!! But the good news is always that if it ain't in there, you get to make it up.

I just didn't want to be making something completely from whole cloth (whatever that means); EB is mentioned SO briefly in my fic-in-progress that it's almost silly that this much thread space has been devoted to her. Fun, though.

Still I hope you found the conversation somewhat useful. NOW, stop feeling sorry for yourself, you are not a thread-killer, and go write an Estella/Merry wedding fic! I'll be waiting ...

PS: Did you know that Estella and Merry are third cousins? ditto Pippin and EB. (Frodo is, curiously, not a blood relation, although he and Merry are related three different ways to various degrees. And let me give a shout-out here to the Mormons and their free downloadable family tree software! Great stuff ... )

Toodle-oo!

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Nazgul #3 in charge of ducking & sniggering

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SilverMoonLady



Joined: 14 Jul 2003
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Location: Breaking in a Brandybuck... *wicked grin*

PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 9:42 am    Post subject: Not sorry at all! Reply with quote

Oh I'm not feeling sorry for myself, just amused and curious:)

I should have them married within two weeks actually, assuming I can wake my beta:)

But thanks for the info:)

Frisky elves are lovely, unless you're a certified PHF like myself, which doesn't mean I can't appreciate the thought of certain *tall* persons wearing next to nothing at all... *grin* Well, anyway, the very words "frisky elves" seems to bring people out of the woodwork to participate in ANY conversation, which I find terribly amusing Laughing

But enough of that... Time for me to get some hobbits into *trouble*
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Andreth



Joined: 24 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:27 am    Post subject: Re: Ack! Reply with quote

SilverMoonLady wrote:
It's official, I am the thread killer. Every post I ask/answer literally, moments later, dies.......... Oh well Razz
Probably the lack of frisky elves....

Wink


Hi Thread-Killer!

ROFL I'm very sorry - I just couldn't resist that.

I actually meant to come back and answer this question for you, but I procrastinated and got distracted by...yes, you guessed it....frisky Elves. I'm weak and shallow, and people have to learn to overlook that in me. Very Happy

I couldn't find any mention of a date for their marriage and I looked through HoMe and my Tolkien Reader, Tolkien Encyclopedia, etc... The only thing I could find was that they were married some time after the War of the Ring. So you're free to put your own timeframe on it.

Really, I'm very sorry I didn't get back over here sooner. I really meant to! And you're not a thread-killer, although I've felt like that a time or two myself.


Anna
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SilverMoonLady



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Location: Breaking in a Brandybuck... *wicked grin*

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:51 am    Post subject: Threadkiller! Reply with quote

Ta Ta Ta Da!! ThreadKiller!!! *swings through the forum pirate-style*

Beware and be wary, ThreadKiller on the loose! Give me some good hobbit bondage or I'll post on your thread and Yes! Kill it! Bang, dead, done!! Twisted Evil

Tee hee hee!!! *mad over-caffeinated grin*

*a plump little hobbit lass wanders by, knocks the madwoman over the heat with a skillet and shoves her into a closet*

Sorry about that, she just gets loose sometimes. Thanks for the info. Wink

SilverMoonLady
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Andreth



Joined: 24 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, our little Virtual Village is open to Hobbit-lovers, too. It's just been all Elves because we're all Elf-lovers so far. I think it would be interesting to have Hobbit slaves running around the village, too. Twisted Evil And you actually sound pretty twisted -which means you'd fit right in!
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SilverMoonLady



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Location: Breaking in a Brandybuck... *wicked grin*

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HeHeHe:)
I wish I had a little more time, it sounds like fun Twisted Evil
Unfortunately I only have access at work... Well, that may change someday Smile *fun twisted ideas running past* Hmm.. I may have to just cut into my typing time, there is a distinct lack of short people in that little town:)
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Leila



Joined: 04 Aug 2003
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Location: the Pegasus Galaxy

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andreth wrote:
You know, our little Virtual Village is open to Hobbit-lovers, too. It's just been all Elves because we're all Elf-lovers so far. I think it would be interesting to have Hobbit slaves running around the village, too. Twisted Evil And you actually sound pretty twisted -which means you'd fit right in!


Not just Elves. Humans too.
There is someone who is going to be joining, as my and Eldarion's(my hubby) daughter, soon who is planning to have Hobbit slaves. They're going to work at her fine dining resaurant.

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