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Viv
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Joined: 24 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NancyBrooke wrote:
Most are short, squat, bow-legged, with long arms, squinty eyes, fangs and swarthy or dark skin.


This is kind of off-topic, but does anyone know of a good, balanced essay that discusses why the heck all the bad guys in Tolkien are dark-skinned, and all the beautiful ones are White?
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BittenBuggy



Joined: 27 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

queenoftheshire wrote:
Ok...ok... I have no idea why I've wondered about this...

But are there female orcs? Or not?

Laughing Laughing
I've just been confusing myself on the subject for like the last 2 weeks when it just popped up in my head. Crazy Roll Eyes wtf I wouldn't


Well, it says in the Silm (and I'm too lazy to look it up exactly) that the orcs 'multiplied after the manner of the First-born.' So techincally, there would HAVE to be elves of different gender wouldn't there? Granted, orc-elf/human girl is probably the most disgusting thing I can think of at the moment.

Ack, no its not. That would be orc-slash.

Puke

Why must I disgust myself?

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NancyBrooke
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

queenoftheshire wrote:
Ok...ok... I have no idea why I've wondered about this...

But are there female orcs? Or not?

Also, according to the Complete Guide, Yes, and, apparently, Orcs spawn. Confused

I wonder if anyone is brave enough to write Orc/Orc romance. That would be bizarre. (shiver)

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BittenBuggy



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Somehow Nancy, I dont see there being much of a 'romance' wtf

I see female orcs as being creatures locked up in dungeons forced to squeeze out babies all the time. Probably their population isnt as great as male orcs. Maybe Morgoth found a way to up the number of boy-orc-babies. *shrugs*

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Andreth



Joined: 24 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had some discussions with people who don't think there were female Orcs. They take the passage where it refers to the Orcs breeding deep in the dark earth or something like that to be literal, that the Orcs were made in a manner akin to what you see in the movies. We finally agreed to disagree.

I don't see how there couldn't be female Orcs. Like BB said, it specifically says that they bred after the manner of the Children of Eru, so that, to me, means male/female relations. Also it specifically says that Saruman could reduce men to a state that they would mate with Orcs so again, it sounds like some male/female action going on there.

But again, I've had people say, 'well Tolkien didn't *specifically* mention female Orcs, so they must not exist', to which I reply that Tolkien was notoriously prudish and Victorian about sex and that he wouldn't even mention Mortal or Elf sex except on scientific/biological terms. He rarely mentioned Mortal or Elf women unless they had some important role to play in the stories. I can't even begin to imagine Tolkien describing the mating habits of Orcs except in the most vague terms, like he already did.

Okay, ending rant and stepping down off soapbox now. As for Orc sex stories, there's two authors I know of, Enros and Grond, who write Orc stories and actually do a very good job of it. I don't think they have any stories over here though. You'll have to brave Fan Fiction or go to HASA to find them, I think. Maybe even Adult Fan Fiction. I'll look around later and see if I can't find any.

Anna
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Viv
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Joined: 24 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NancyBrooke wrote:
queenoftheshire wrote:
Ok...ok... I have no idea why I've wondered about this...

But are there female orcs? Or not?

Also, according to the Complete Guide, Yes, and, apparently, Orcs spawn. Confused

I wonder if anyone is brave enough to write Orc/Orc romance. That would be bizarre. (shiver)


There's a really good orc/orc romance poem out there called "Love Me Urgren." I think the writer is Werecat (?).
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queenoftheshire



Joined: 03 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NancyBrooke wrote:
queenoftheshire wrote:
Ok...ok... I have no idea why I've wondered about this...

But are there female orcs? Or not?

Also, according to the Complete Guide, Yes, and, apparently, Orcs spawn. Confused

I wonder if anyone is brave enough to write Orc/Orc romance. That would be bizarre. (shiver)


Actually...I think Jodancingtree has somewhat of an orc romance in her fics. I'm not quite sure...it's not like the main theme of the story but I think there's some parts in it involving orc/orc romance. Well yeah...one can't exactly call it romance though...


I'm thinking specifically of parts in Following the Other Wizard: A Journey Into Healing and especially The Queen's Orc. I've been bad and haven't been reading The Queen's Orc lately Embarassed so I can't be sure, but that is, however an orc centered story.
Ugh...why am I making myself sick thinking about this stuff?? Head bang Jail Puke Scary

(I'm in an emoticon mood today, can ya tell? Laughing )

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Andreth



Joined: 24 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NancyBrooke wrote:
I guess my real question is, when fighting Orcs, are you pretty much waging a night time campaign?


I know that the Boromir I was the first one to fight the Uruks when Sauron re-introduced them in the Third Age, but I don't think there's any details for that battle either.

You'd think that most of the Orc battles would be at night and maybe whoever was fighting them would expect them to be at night, so maybe they used day attacks as a surprise attacks. Something they pulled out of their hat to throw the defenders off guard. Like you said, the Uruks could be out in the daylight but didn't seem to like it much, so maybe that was something reserved for special occasions. Question But then I'm not exactly a tactician so I'm not sure. Very Happy


Anna
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BittenBuggy



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banana Anna agreed with me Banana

That makes me feel amazingly good Laughing

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-"My ultimate fantasy is to entice a man to my bedroom, put a gun to his head and say, 'Make babies or die'."

-"The Pope! how many divisions has he got?" - Stalin
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NancyBrooke
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Viv wrote:
There's a really good orc/orc romance poem out there called "Love Me Urgren." I think the writer is Werecat (?).

Yeah, that is an excellent poem. Quite beautiful and sincere and yet, violent.

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Roisin



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There would have to be female orcs so they could breed. I assume the females are in their lairs somewhere.

Roisin
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