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VanatheEverYoung
Joined: 22 Aug 2004 Posts: 0 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:04 pm Post subject: Constellations in M-E |
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I'm wondering if anybody knows how M-E constellations translate into modern constellations. I see in the Index of Silmarillion that the Valacirca is the Great Bear. (And if anyone knows what the hell that is, please tell me that also). But, I read on Council of Elrond that the Valacirca is the Big Dipper. So, is there a discrepency somewhere in HoME or Letters or some other books I haven't read yet? Some other constellations I can guess; Menelmacar's belt=Orion's belt, and I read somewhere that Earendil is Venus. I just really need to know about the Sickle of the Valar.
My fic is an AU "modern day" story. The Elves are star gazing, and it would be really embarassing to have an Elf incorrectly name the most important constellation in the sky and incorrectly point to its location. Or rather, it would be embarassing for a certain fanfic writer . _________________
Vána, the Ever-Young
"All flowers spring as she passes and open if she glances upon them; and all birds sing at her coming." |
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Eruanna

Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 426 Location: Dor-Cuarthol, betwixt the Bow and the Helm...
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:19 pm Post subject: Re: Constellations in M-E |
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[quote="VanatheEverYoung"]I'm wondering if anybody knows how M-E constellations translate into modern constellations. I see in the Index of Silmarillion that the Valacirca is the Great Bear. (And if anyone knows what the hell that is, please tell me that also). But, I read on Council of Elrond that the Valacirca is the Big Dipper. So, is there a discrepency somewhere in HoME or Letters or some other books I haven't read yet? Some other constellations I can guess; Menelmacar's belt=Orion's belt, and I read somewhere that Earendil is Venus. I just really need to know about the Sickle of the Valar.
[/quote]
I somewhere read an astromony site that had astral analyses of Tolkien's writing. Have you Googled the'net for information?
I think this must be the Big Dipper??? (It is scoop shaped.)
I am sure the info has to be out there. They are, after all, the People of the Stars.
--Eruanna _________________ "I have returned from the Northern Fences," said the Elf, "and I am sent now to be your guide again." |
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sindohte

Joined: 13 May 2003 Posts: 1621 Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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The Valacirca is known as the Sickle of the Valar which is comparable to the modern day constellation of the Great Bear, Ursa Major. _________________ abandon thought, and let the dream descend... |
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Eruanna

Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 426 Location: Dor-Cuarthol, betwixt the Bow and the Helm...
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:26 pm Post subject: Bear with a long tail LOL! |
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[quote="sindohte"]The Valacirca is known as the Sickle of the Valar which is comparable to the modern day constellation of the Great Bear, Ursa Major.[/quote]
Sindhote:
Thanks for the correction. The tail is like a sickle. Yup, a long-tailed bear!
--Eruanna _________________ "I have returned from the Northern Fences," said the Elf, "and I am sent now to be your guide again." |
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sindohte

Joined: 13 May 2003 Posts: 1621 Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm, I am confused now. The Silm says one thing, but a check of a webpage by a physics/astronomy professor says something entirely different. http://www.physics.ccsu.edu/larsen/jrrt.html Because according to this professor, the Valacirca is the Big Dipper. Errghhh. Time for more research. _________________ abandon thought, and let the dream descend... |
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Alassante Virtual Village Mod

Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 20 Location: Hitchhiking to Rivendell
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| sindohte wrote: | | The Valacirca is known as the Sickle of the Valar which is comparable to the modern day constellation of the Great Bear, Ursa Major. |
Color me impressed. I didn't even know the modern day ones. Except the big dipper and the little dipper. Is there anything you don't know Sindohte?  _________________ Nagzul #2 - The Nazgul of Shmoove
Crucio! Because stupidity should be painful!
http://alikat7.livejournal.com/ |
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sindohte

Joined: 13 May 2003 Posts: 1621 Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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Ahh okay, mystery is solved.
The constellation Ursa Major contains the group of stars commonly called the Big Dipper. The handle of the Dipper is the Great Bear's tail and the Dipper's cup is the Bear's flank. The Big Dipper is not a constellation itself, but an asterism, which is a distinctive group of stars. Another famous asterism is the Little Dipper in the constellation Ursa Minor.
I found the information here -
http://www.astro.wisc.edu/~dolan/constellations/constellations/Ursa_Major.html _________________ abandon thought, and let the dream descend... |
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VanatheEverYoung
Joined: 22 Aug 2004 Posts: 0 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but ... The Big Dipper, Ursa Major, and the Great Bear are all the same constellation. (I spontaneously remembered from from Astronomy. Amazing!) So, it looks like I'm on the right track. Thanks! But, if you find any updates, be sure to let me know . _________________
Vána, the Ever-Young
"All flowers spring as she passes and open if she glances upon them; and all birds sing at her coming." |
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VanatheEverYoung
Joined: 22 Aug 2004 Posts: 0 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like we had lightbulbs go off at the same time, Sind! So now I can post my chapter! Thanks! _________________
Vána, the Ever-Young
"All flowers spring as she passes and open if she glances upon them; and all birds sing at her coming." |
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sindohte

Joined: 13 May 2003 Posts: 1621 Location: Rubbing up against an Elf
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Alassante wrote: | | sindohte wrote: | | The Valacirca is known as the Sickle of the Valar which is comparable to the modern day constellation of the Great Bear, Ursa Major. |
Color me impressed. I didn't even know the modern day ones. Except the big dipper and the little dipper. Is there anything you don't know Sindohte?  |
Oh there are a few things that I don't know Mathematics is one thing that I totally suck at. It was a miracle that I passed statistics. _________________ abandon thought, and let the dream descend... |
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SpaceWeavil

Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 23 Location: Looking at shiny things
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 8:37 am Post subject: |
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Don't know if this is of any use to you, Vana, but I did a bit of research on astronomical stuff in ME for 'And in the Darkness', for the Witch King's alchemy / astrology hobby, and so I've got the names of the major planets in Quenya.
Like I said, don't know if it's useful or not, but I'll stick it on here, since I had the list made up anyway.
Mars - Carnil
Mercury - Elemmírë
Jupiter - Alcarinquë
Venus - Eärendil or I also found Tancol
Saturn - Lumbar _________________ Pervy Nazgul Fancier and owner of Fluffy the Fell Beast |
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NancyBrooke Challenge Admin
Joined: 11 May 2003 Posts: 160 Location: In a motel 6 by the airport
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:57 am Post subject: |
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http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/stars.html#Stars.
This is the site I used for info when writing "Weapons Against the Enemy." It lists the stars mentioned in LOTR and the Silm, their ME constellation etc., then our modern equivalent. Can't say if it's very accurate or comprehensive but it was interesting. _________________ NB Duchess of WHY TF Cant'chu Punctuate, First Duchess of F*&(ing &*ll yur comma placement sux!
Nazgul #3 in charge of ducking & sniggering
Garo golf a conu ned i eneth aran an ir ho delitha ad |
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SpaceWeavil

Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 23 Location: Looking at shiny things
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| NancyBrooke wrote: | http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/stars.html#Stars.
This is the site I used for info when writing "Weapons Against the Enemy." It lists the stars mentioned in LOTR and the Silm, their ME constellation etc., then our modern equivalent. Can't say if it's very accurate or comprehensive but it was interesting. |
Will need to check the references, but that's a really good starting point to look for stuff. Thanks I need this really for part two of my story, once it moves on to the court at Armenelos (hopefully only a couple of chapters away but knowing me it could be another 20 chapters away ) _________________ Pervy Nazgul Fancier and owner of Fluffy the Fell Beast |
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Alassante Virtual Village Mod

Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 20 Location: Hitchhiking to Rivendell
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| sindohte wrote: | | Alassante wrote: | | sindohte wrote: | | The Valacirca is known as the Sickle of the Valar which is comparable to the modern day constellation of the Great Bear, Ursa Major. |
Color me impressed. I didn't even know the modern day ones. Except the big dipper and the little dipper. Is there anything you don't know Sindohte?  |
Oh there are a few things that I don't know Mathematics is one thing that I totally suck at. It was a miracle that I passed statistics. |
The fact that you made it to statistics is impressive enough! I stopped at Algebra 2. I did well in math except for Geometry. My problem was if I know it is right, why the heck do I have to prove it??? So I didn't do well in a class all about proving something you know to be right. As my beta will tell you, I ain't that swell at Grammer, neither. And spelling - oh my Gosh, I spell things so badly that even spell check cannot figure out what they are!! I never took Astronemy (see! I cannot spell it! ) so I do not know any constellations. It's amazing to me that I was on honor roll for two years (although in 10th grade I decided i would drop out marry my unemployed, druggie,alcoholic, older boyfriend and my GPA was 1.2 for that year- I know TOO MUCH INFORMATION) yet I cannot remember anything I am that good at for school! I think my biggest skill is finding out what I am good at and avoiding everything else!  _________________ Nagzul #2 - The Nazgul of Shmoove
Crucio! Because stupidity should be painful!
http://alikat7.livejournal.com/ |
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