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Who brought Haldir up?

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rohanion



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 47
Location: uk

PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 6:26 pm    Post subject: Who brought Haldir up? Reply with quote

I need some clarification on this question?

As I understand it (though it is sometime since I have read the books) Haldir and his brothers were raised by Celeborn after their parents left middle earth - is this correct? or have I got this wrong?
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SpaceWeavil



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Far as I know that's something that's developed from fan fiction, rather than from the books, though I may be wrong.

To the best of my knowledge, all that we know about Haldir from the books was that he was a marchwarden and had two brothers called Rumil and Orophin. Probably other folks know more stuff, but that's all I remember from the books.

When I wrote him (and can't remember what story this was for) I had their parents still living in Caras Galadhon, though I think I maimed his father in the Last Alliance or something. I must stop being nasty to characters in my fics, that's my resolution. Cool

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NeumeIndil



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went first to the Thain's Book which is a good secondary source, but all it says is parentage unknown. Similarly, Encyclopedia of Arda said almost exactly the same thing. So, I tried PoME: Again, bupkis.

From there I went to J.E.A. Tyler's The Complete Tolkien Companion which calls him only a marchwarden of Lothlorien; nothing about parents or foster parents.

Went to Cannon NO Fannon, another good secondary site for this sort of questions and got:
http://www.tinni.100megsfree5.com/canonNOfanon/elves/fanon11to20.htm#fanon13

Answer: Inconclusive. It may be a conceit of fan fic that he was fostered or adopted, but it surely doesn't seem there is any evidence to nay say it. I'd say go with what best serves your story.

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rohanion



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey that was a prompt repy!

thanks to both of you for answering my little query.

I am writing my Haldir story and was going to have him recall his younger days...... so not sure what to write now?


I will probably go with the Celeborn theme as it seems to fit nicely.


Once agan thank you both for your assistance
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FallingIntoStrangers



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say that since nothing is written in stone by Tolkien himself, you could pretty much have a free hand in Haildir's life. I have written a Haldir fic myself (which sucked) and am about to (maybe) embark on a newer, better one. A character like him is in some ways easier to write, cuz you can twist him into what you need him to be for your fic. But at the same time, hard to do, cuz we know NOTHING about him so where do you start?

I say, do as you wish, but keep it realistic. I am fairly sure he is Silvan Elf, but other than that... it's pretty open.

Good Luck!!

Oh an I would lurve to talk to someone about whether or not I should even write this fic in my head, considering since my Middle earth knowledge is rusty, and my last LOTR fic I hated.

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ghettoelleth



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He could tight rope walk across rivers, which leads me to believe that his parents may have been circus performers before becoming elves and moving to Lorien.

Oh, and he could hear fat Hobbitses (Sam NOT Gimli) Real Good!

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Rhapsody



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:15 am    Post subject: Re: Who brought Haldir up? Reply with quote

rohanion wrote:
I need some clarification on this question?

As I understand it (though it is sometime since I have read the books) Haldir and his brothers were raised by Celeborn after their parents left middle earth - is this correct? or have I got this wrong?


It's completely Fanon. As many other already said.

Lord knows what happened to his folks, maybe they got killed during the war of the last alliance. Or maybe he and his brothers were put in a small boat and washed ashore the Silverlode. Enjoy this bunny Wink

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NancyBrooke
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NeumeIndil wrote:
Went to Cannon NO Fannon, another good secondary site for this sort of questions and got:
http://www.tinni.100megsfree5.com/canonNOfanon/elves/fanon11to20.htm#fanon13

This is a great site!! what a hoot. Thanks, Neume for pointing it out.

Now, what, you may ask, am I 'She-Who-Sneers-at-Virtually-Non-Existent-Elf-Characters' doing in a thread about Haldir? Just this: Reading I wouldn't Outta here

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NeumeIndil



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That site is courtesy of my "Newbie Starting to Spaz" post from 3 months ago. It is an awesome site and quite funny... for those times when your sense of humor decides his/her play group at the locker room is a better place to be than sitting in your lap while you're writing.

Rohanion, there are a bunch more links and book titles in that other thread if you end up wanting/needing more sources. It's in "writing tips and tricks" about half way down the forum page.

Good luck w/ the Bunny.

Neu

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Eruanna



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 9:59 am    Post subject: Scanty info Reply with quote

Yes, there is not much about Haldir, Rumil and Orophin in canon.

Just a trio of brothers who are border guards.

The films have made them out to be the blonde brothers of Lorien. Perhaps the extended film extended version will show more of these boys. I understand they did shoot some Lorien battle scenes that got cut even from the EE versions of FOTR. Crying or Very sad

I do know, however, that an early Tolkien draft had Haldir's name as "Hathaldir."

--Eruanna

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NeumeIndil



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry. Double post. Dang it, I thought that Gremlin ran away or something.

Neu

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Last edited by NeumeIndil on Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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ghettoelleth



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: Scanty info Reply with quote

Eruanna wrote:
Yes, there is not much about Haldir, Rumil and Orophin in canon.

Just a trio of brothers who are border guards.

The films have made them out to be the blonde brothers of Lorien. Perhaps the extended film extended version will show more of these boys. I understand they did shoot some Lorien battle scenes that got cut even from the EE versions of FOTR. Crying or Very sad

I do know, however, that an early Tolkien draft had Haldir's name as "Hathaldir."

--Eruanna


There's also a conversation between Haldir and Glads debating whether or not the elves should join in the battle at Helm's Deep, you know...just like...in the books. Crying or Very sad

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Eruanna



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: Scanty info Reply with quote

Yes, I also hear in the film that Celeborn and Elrond were also in on it, too. Hal was the elf who persuaded the three noble elves to send troops and volunteered to lead (or something...)

Another chance to see lovely movie Haldir in his galadhrim greys (swoon). Very Happy

--Eruanna

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Rhapsody



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey that movie can always use some more Craig goodness Wink
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Eruanna



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:45 am    Post subject: Movie Reply with quote

Rhapsody wrote:
Hey that movie can always use some more Craig goodness Wink


Mr. Parker stated shortly after FOTR came out that some of the scenes in Lorien were cut. I guess his Haldir really got to kick some backside in this scene! Very Happy

I know on the FOTR EE DVDs that there are some concept scenes in which an elf (which can only be Haldir) is shown in the storyboards. This Haldir really takes down one of the orcs!! This is the scene when the Fellowship sans Gandalf enters Lorien after fleeing Moria.

These cut scenes are obvious in their omission in the films. Even in the EE of FOTR, there is the scene of Legolas and Hal up on the flets and Legolas is saying something like, "We are in your debt, Haldir of Lorien." In debt for what??

--Eruanna

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